Atos subcontracts disability tests to NHS

I dont think people whom commit sucide make demands, at least in this case. "They dont go unless you give me what I want I'll commit suicide!". There not bribing anyone their just doing it.

If a policy is resulting in an increase in suicides then their is clearly a problem with it. Its
not about a policy of emotion. A policy about emotion would be after someone gets away with pedophilia for a while to then implement checks for all adults. This you have an undesired(I think) outcome.

There is lots of things that can be done about this.

But if the attitude is "Who give a **** about those people killing themselves". It says a lot about that society.
 
Calabi said:
I dont think people whom commit sucide make demands, at least in this case. "They dont go unless you give me what I want I'll commit suicide!". There not bribing anyone their just doing it.

If a policy is resulting in an increase in suicides then their is clearly a problem with it. Its
not about a policy of emotion. A policy about emotion would be after someone gets away with pedophilia for a while to then implement checks for all adults. This you have an undesired(I think) outcome.

There is lots of things that can be done about this.

But if the attitude is "Who give a **** about those people killing themselves". It says a lot about that society.
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If I was giving a group of people £100k a year for doing nothing for a few years, then cut them off because the money was no longer available, the fact that some didn't take it well is not a reason to reverse the policy, but maybe to counsel around the impact. Massive media lies about taxes and entitlements have almost certainly made the impact worse.
 
Dolph said:
If I was giving a group of people £100k a year for doing nothing for a few years, then cut them off because the money was no longer available, the fact that some didn't take it well is not a reason to reverse the policy, but maybe to counsel around the impact. Massive media lies about taxes and entitlements have almost certainly made the impact worse.
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I'm not arguing with that, its just the methods they are using, there are lots of ways some less harsh to get their desired results.
 
Calabi said:
I'm not arguing with that, its just the methods they are using, there are lots of ways some less harsh to get their desired results.
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The big thing that needs to be tackled is the entitlement culture. if that was tackled, it would be much easier.

The idea that social housing should be considered 'your home' is a classic example of the entitlement culture.
 
Dolph said:
The big thing that needs to be tackled is the entitlement culture. if that was tackled, it would be much easier.

The idea that social housing should be considered 'your home' is a classic example of the entitlement culture.
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I live in social housing. If I don't pay the rent I get kicked out full stop. My rent is £130 a week. I am stuck here as my credit rating is shot so I can't rent privately. My flat is so damp it has been condemned by evrironmental health and the housing associations own surveyor as unfit for human habitation.

All they claim is their is no budget to make the repairs as the place is too costly at the moment.

Subsidised my back side, I doubt it would be even legal to house people here privately. Let alone get the rent they charge me.

Francis Maude my MP has seen it and is disgusted. They just ignore his letters. Some entitlement this place will be my grave.
 
As I understand it, the lady that killed herself was offered alternative accomodation, and financial support making the move.

People don't kill themselves over £20 a week.
 
Stretch said:
As I understand it, the lady that killed herself was offered alternative accomodation, and financial support making the move.

People don't kill themselves over £20 a week.
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If that's the difference between feeding your kids and not feeding your kids, some people will. Sadly, it's possible in this country for your family to be financially better off without you.
 
Dis86 said:
If that's the difference between feeding your kids and not feeding your kids, some people will. Sadly, it's possible in this country for your family to be financially better off without you.
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How is killing yourself the only way of doing the best for you children.

Also, this lady's children were adults and should have been supporting themselves.


Third Opinion said:
I live in social housing. If I don't pay the rent I get kicked out full stop. My rent is £130 a week. I am stuck here as my credit rating is shot so I can't rent privately. My flat is so damp it has been condemned by evrironmental health and the housing associations own surveyor as unfit for human habitation.

All they claim is their is no budget to make the repairs as the place is too costly at the moment.

Subsidised my back side, I doubt it would be even legal to house people here privately. Let alone get the rent they charge me.

Francis Maude my MP has seen it and is disgusted. They just ignore his letters. Some entitlement this place will be my grave.
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You do understand what the entitlement culture is right?
 
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She should have just refused to pay, prison is getting more and more appealing than living on the outside in austerity Britain, no need to worry about bills/bedroom tax and the government suddenly has ten times more money available to take care of you.
 
mmj_uk said:
She should have just refused to pay, prison is getting more and more appealing than living on the outside in austerity Britain, no need to worry about bills/bedroom tax and the government suddenly has ten times more money available to take care of you.
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Lol, this speaks volumes.

She's not been asked to "pay" anything. It's a reduction in the amount of money the government hands to her each week. Apparently it wasn't enough so she killed herself.
 
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Stretch said:
How is killing yourself the only way of doing the best for you children.

Also, this lady's children were adults and should have been supporting themselves.




You do understand what the entitlement culture is right?
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I didn't say it was the only or the best way however when some people are placed in that situation they will see it as being the only way. If you've ever suffered from depression or have been desperately poor then you might have some understanding of it?

And I don't know if I'm taking you the right way but are you saying he's showing a sense of entitlement to not have a house that is below environmental standards and thus dangerous to his health?
 
Dis86 said:
I didn't say it was the only or the best way however when some people are placed in that situation they will see it as being the only way. If you've ever suffered from depression or have been desperately poor then you might have some understanding of it?

And I don't know if I'm taking you the right way but are you saying he's showing a sense of entitlement to not have a house that is below environmental standards and thus dangerous to his health?
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Depression and poverty are both very real problems. However suicide isn't a way out of anything if you have dependants.

Lots of council accomodation is substandard as is lots of private rental accomodation. There are laws in place to tackle these problems but like everything in life it's not perfect. Councils and landlords alike try to shirk their responsibilities because of the huge costs involved.

The only thing that entitles you to what you want is if you can afford to pay for it yourself. If you run into problems, the law maybe on your side but you're better of voting with your feet and finding somewhere else to live.
 
Stretch said:
You do understand what the entitlement culture is right?
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I was responding to a comment made about entitlement culture and social housing.

On one hand people make fun about council estates, the crime, the culture and the dreadful condition they are in. Then on the other hand moan why is their rent cheaper than a private place of similar size.

Modern day tenancy in social housing is nothing like an old council tenancy.


I did not chose to be in my situation, I got sick after working solidly for 17 years as a tax payer.

I am now taken advantage on the other end of the scale. I have a two broken outer double glazing units. I have been informed there is a 2 year waiting list for replacement. Do you think that is a reasonable repair time for a landlord?
 
Firstly, no. I don't think its acceptable. Would I leave my windows broken for two years, no. However, if someone else is footing the bill it's not that simple and I think it's pretty unfair to expect idealistic treatment.

The government has limit funds yet people have insatiable demands. If the government wants more money they have to ask people to pay more tax. The consensus from tax payers is they pay enough already.

If they fixed your windows it's money they can't spend elsewhere, it's not free. What do you expect them to do?
 
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Stretch said:
Firstly, no. I don't think its acceptable. Would I leave my windows broken for two years, no. However, if someone else is footing the bill it's not that simple and I think it's pretty unfair to expect idealistic treatment.

The government has limit funds yet people have insatiable demands. If the government wants more money they have to ask people to pay more tax. The consensus from tax payers is they pay enough already.

If they fixed your windows it's money they can't spend elsewhere, it's not free. What do you expect them to do?
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To be fair it's 2 windows he wants fixed, not the house rebuilt. In this case it doesn't matter if its the government paying for it, 2 years to fix a window is shocking.

Would you like it if you say rented a flat and the landlord came out with the same crap you just did?
 
teaboy5 said:
To be fair it's 2 windows he wants fixed, not the house rebuilt. In this case it doesn't matter if its the government paying for it, 2 years to fix a window is shocking.

Would you like it if you say rented a flat and the landlord came out with the same crap you just did?
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No, I'd give notice and move. Landlords are well known for dragging their feet.

It totally matters that the government are paying for it. It's not just two windows, most councils have huge backlogs of maintenance work. He's just one of many. Being put on a waiting list is the governments way of saying they're under resourced. He's not on a list out of spite.

It's the same for the NHS and anything else the government provides. They don't stand a chance of keeping up with demand for free stuff.
 
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What I'm also slightly concerned about is the nature and tone of statements by some departmental spokespeople in recent months.

The spin machination is operating in full naked unbridled glory it would appear.
 
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