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Except any such rights are not with the manufacturer.
Audi warranty denial....
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Except any such rights are not with the manufacturer.
But for the relevance to this particular conversation (denial of an entire warranty due to any modification), this doesn't make much practical difference to the end consumer - with a new car, he has some recourse regardless, whether it's the manufacturer or the supplying dealer, so there's little to no value in a manufacturer attempting to void an entire warranty for an unrelated modification.
I guess the difficulty is that the modification was to the electrical system and now the OP has major electrical problems.
If the OP had made a suspension change, bodywork mod, or changed the colour/repainted something Audi would likely find it hard to realistically claim that an electrical fault is anything to do with the modifications. The fact that in this instance, the fault is electrical, after a modified piece of electrical equipment was added to the system makes it that much easier to hide behind any modification clauses they have in their warranty terms, and likely makes them more confident of winning if it came to a full on legal dispute.
I do however have no idea who, legally, has to prove what (ie do Audi have to prove the electircal fault was caused by the Ghost system, or does the OP have to prove that it wasnt).
I will certainly be interested to see how this gets resolved.
Yes, which is what I said in the first post.
He's got two key problems here which I think Audi will use to hide behind:
Even if you could get to the point of successfully arguing the Ghost had no influence, they'll probably just fall back on the RAC boosting the car as 'damage as a result of repairs carried out by an unauthorised workshop'.
There's two battles to win here
Ghost vs Audi
RAC vs Audi
Soldato
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They wont void a warranty for an unrelated item since the warranty is part of the contract for sale and as such they would be deemed unreasonable should they do so if you went to court.
Likewise your insurance company isnt going to void your policy (which they would need to not pay out) if someone ran into the back of you. Anyway if someone runs into the back of you its the other parties insurance that would pay out
Whats far more likely is that if someone they found out you had significantly mis declared they would demand a fairly prohibitive premium and decline to offer you a renewal. Its why that question of "have you ever had insurance declined" is significant.
Likewise your insurance company isnt going to void your policy (which they would need to not pay out) if someone ran into the back of you. Anyway if someone runs into the back of you its the other parties insurance that would pay out
Whats far more likely is that if someone they found out you had significantly mis declared they would demand a fairly prohibitive premium and decline to offer you a renewal. Its why that question of "have you ever had insurance declined" is significant.
You have this the wrong way around. If you significantly misdeclared the policy could be voided or cancelled which would be a big red flag when it comes to getting a new quote. Not being offered a renewal isn't the same as having insurance declined and doesn't need to be declared.
Now looked at details on CANbus immbolisers : so, able to cut the engine, when the car has stopped if it was driven more than ~30mpg whilst in service mode,
pretty intriguing what kind of authenticated packets they can send out on the CAN bus to do this. - install looks easy
pretty intriguing what kind of authenticated packets they can send out on the CAN bus to do this. - install looks easy
guys as mkw said and i said earlier the op needs
a written statement from ghost and a report.
a written statement and report from the rac
then audi need to be tied down correctly to what is actually wrong with the vehicle, if they are going to charge to do that , then take it to a specialist v/w audi company with a half decent auto electrician.
as said it may be down to something as silly as a knackered battery through lockdown not used.
cripes im having to charge my batteries on my vehicles every couple of weeks to top them up , because of lack of use. until these reports are in and inspections done the op is chasing his tail and audi will just sit there quite happily doing nothing.
autowatch should be sending someone out to inspect from head office not just telling you on the phone it cant damage it. audi are inferring that there product caused a fault this could have major implications to many of there customers they will want to be involved to fight there corner.
as regards insurance companies well again until you speak to them you dont know what they will cover ive had people claim for silly things even my own brother claimed for a exhaust a couple of years ago despite being told by us he wouldnt get paid they deducted the policy excess and payed the difference ..and yes it was a claim and his policy went up a few pounds, more than likely they had a few laugths at there head office.
please dont fall into the trap of having the ghost taken off , without knowing its faulty, im assuming it still works all be it the vehicle doesnt start your incurring more expense for no reason, if autowatch want it removed to be checked you need them to explain why and have someone there to see it being done and the condition it is in.
most vehicles will throw silly faults up and they wont go unless cleared with diagnostics as regards the blown fuses , i think i read a 70amp amongst them, apologies if not. then i would expect a major fault to cause this as in a direct short, and possible damage to wiring.
last of all PLEASE dont trust what audi say nearly all main dealers do not have dedicated auto electricians , they are mechanics trained to replace like for like until the fault goes away, if the machine says something is faulty they replace it and so on and so on until it sort the problem, and the customer or warranty company pays for all of it. the days of the old fashioned time served auto electricians have passed, im not saying that they dont exist just most now work for themselves.
auto electricians dont die we just fizzle out
a written statement from ghost and a report.
a written statement and report from the rac
then audi need to be tied down correctly to what is actually wrong with the vehicle, if they are going to charge to do that , then take it to a specialist v/w audi company with a half decent auto electrician.
as said it may be down to something as silly as a knackered battery through lockdown not used.
cripes im having to charge my batteries on my vehicles every couple of weeks to top them up , because of lack of use. until these reports are in and inspections done the op is chasing his tail and audi will just sit there quite happily doing nothing.
autowatch should be sending someone out to inspect from head office not just telling you on the phone it cant damage it. audi are inferring that there product caused a fault this could have major implications to many of there customers they will want to be involved to fight there corner.
as regards insurance companies well again until you speak to them you dont know what they will cover ive had people claim for silly things even my own brother claimed for a exhaust a couple of years ago despite being told by us he wouldnt get paid they deducted the policy excess and payed the difference ..and yes it was a claim and his policy went up a few pounds, more than likely they had a few laugths at there head office.
please dont fall into the trap of having the ghost taken off , without knowing its faulty, im assuming it still works all be it the vehicle doesnt start your incurring more expense for no reason, if autowatch want it removed to be checked you need them to explain why and have someone there to see it being done and the condition it is in.
most vehicles will throw silly faults up and they wont go unless cleared with diagnostics as regards the blown fuses , i think i read a 70amp amongst them, apologies if not. then i would expect a major fault to cause this as in a direct short, and possible damage to wiring.
last of all PLEASE dont trust what audi say nearly all main dealers do not have dedicated auto electricians , they are mechanics trained to replace like for like until the fault goes away, if the machine says something is faulty they replace it and so on and so on until it sort the problem, and the customer or warranty company pays for all of it. the days of the old fashioned time served auto electricians have passed, im not saying that they dont exist just most now work for themselves.
auto electricians dont die we just fizzle out
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geez just let them pinch it why bother anyways with such a device on a Q7.
audi are going to wriggle out of this one and rightly so too.
audi are going to wriggle out of this one and rightly so too.
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Exactly. Let the scum steal the car. GAP insurance will payout and you can buy a newer car.
I wonder how much money the OP will be down compared to if he just paid for the repaired. Got to be at least £400 with legal fees thus far. My pal is a solicitor and he takes on these cases all the time with no intention of winning the case. Why would he? He charges £200 to send a letter, it’s literally taking candy from a baby.
Soldato
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Did the company who sold you the ghost tell you that it would invalidate your warranty?
Could be a conversation worth having
Companies get away with this as the customer very rarely puts up much of a fight
Could be a conversation worth having
Companies get away with this as the customer very rarely puts up much of a fight
Is it their responsibility to tell you that?
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No
If he asked them then they would have needed to answer honestly but if he didnt they dont need to volunteer that type of info.
Its the sort of thing you would expect FAQs to cover really on a website if it doesnt affect warranty. But so many manufacturers, so many models, they could change their mind at any time, I cant see how they would be able to state honestly that it didnt or couldnt affect warranty.
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I very much doubt it
Soldato
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Yeah. It's like buying a car. It could have been resprayed due to damage, yet if you don't ask they don't have to tell you
Ghost must reverse engineer the cars bus communication protocol for different types of car, those must change rarely, not via OTA anyway,
presumably that is not itself a legal infraction of intellectual property. (it's like the leak/cracking of the blu-ray encryption codes ?)
wonder if you can put one of these on a tesla, or, they have a much more resilient electronics system
presumably that is not itself a legal infraction of intellectual property. (it's like the leak/cracking of the blu-ray encryption codes ?)
wonder if you can put one of these on a tesla, or, they have a much more resilient electronics system
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I think the issue is that the Ghost is just a bit of a Micky mouse product. Unfortunately, the draw is just too strong given that it's probably the best way to stop your car being stolen for very little money.
Regarding them voiding the warranty over the Ghost, I'd be asking if an aftermarket tracker would also void the warranty - fitting some of these can be far more invasive than a Ghost install.
Regarding them voiding the warranty over the Ghost, I'd be asking if an aftermarket tracker would also void the warranty - fitting some of these can be far more invasive than a Ghost install.
They won’t install anything not on the Audi UK menu. So they won’t install a Ghost. They have their own Tracker product but it’s just a tracker.
Assuming this is the Ghost product installed, pretty clear cut in terms of their position on this:
https://www.sasmobile.co.uk/tech-details/Autowatch-Ghost-FAQs
First step is for Audi to make categorically clear that they are voiding the warranty because of the Ghost. Second step is to use that as a stick to get the Ghost manufacturer to prove otherwise (given their stated claims).
https://www.sasmobile.co.uk/tech-details/Autowatch-Ghost-FAQs
First step is for Audi to make categorically clear that they are voiding the warranty because of the Ghost. Second step is to use that as a stick to get the Ghost manufacturer to prove otherwise (given their stated claims).