There is only so much that can be done in one go, short of kidnapping kids long enough to vaccinate them.
You cant stop a child's education because it has incompetent parents. That will just breed yet more incompetence.
Australia to stop welfare cash of anti-vaccine parents
- Thread starter MissChief
- Start date
There is only so much that can be done in one go, short of kidnapping kids long enough to vaccinate them.
You cant stop a child's education because it has incompetent parents. That will just breed yet more incompetence.
Man of Honour
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Do you (or does anyone) happen to know the prevalence of avoidance of vaccinations amongst people in receipt of benefits vs those who are wealthy enough to be exempt from this? It might make a difference if of the 39,000 children who are estimated not to have received vaccinations say 33,000 were in receipt of benefits vs if the proportions were reversed because one way round you're getting near universal immunisation with this approach and the other way the effect is probably negligible.
You probably can't force everyone to vaccinate their child but this seems to be a step which encourages (or coerces depending on your point of view) people to vaccinate their child. It's important not just for the safety of the individual child but perhaps more importantly for the "herd" immunity point. It's a difficult one to balance up but here individual choice has an effect on society so it's not entirely surprising if the government takes steps to counter that.
I don't particularly like the illiberal nature in which this is being done but equally I can understand why it is being implemented and why it could be judged to be the lesser of evils.
It's not about protecting the child..
When this happens the funding for health goes up as it's less effective. Forcing the immunisation means you don't get the additional cost of health complications later in life.
So it's the nation protecting itself from anti-immunisation numpties.
I think the same is true with education.. perhaps kids should be put in boarding schools for a madatory 3 year stretch.. help them develop their own character to break out of the benefit cycle..
I think mandatory uni is also a good thing.. having an educated populous that works together is good rather than laying about soaking up benefits.
When this happens the funding for health goes up as it's less effective. Forcing the immunisation means you don't get the additional cost of health complications later in life.
So it's the nation protecting itself from anti-immunisation numpties.
I think the same is true with education.. perhaps kids should be put in boarding schools for a madatory 3 year stretch.. help them develop their own character to break out of the benefit cycle..
I think mandatory uni is also a good thing.. having an educated populous that works together is good rather than laying about soaking up benefits.
Soldato
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It certainly is the herd immunity.
Mother A's 5 year old with measles might infect and kill mother B's 6 month old who has yet to receive the vaccine, even if the rest of family B have been vaccinated.
I think this selfish point is missed by many who refuse to immunise.
Mother A's 5 year old with measles might infect and kill mother B's 6 month old who has yet to receive the vaccine, even if the rest of family B have been vaccinated.
I think this selfish point is missed by many who refuse to immunise.
This doesn't actually solve the underlying problem unfortunately. The child still doesn't get the vaccine. Instead it should be classed as child abuse to stop your child being vaccinated. You are actively harming the child by not having them vaccinated.
Well it will solve it massively, as they are unlikely to give up that money.
Money is some of the best motivator in this world.
And with politics, it's normally has to be done in small steps, rather than a blanket it's illegal not to vaccinate.
I think it's probably a good idea.
IIRC there was a fairly recent, quite serious outbreak in the US, from memory when they tracked it back it was due to an unimunised woman who went to Disney Land/world whilst infectious, and passed it on to dozens/hundreds of others.
Apparently the area the park was located in is also one of the places with the lowest percentage of immunised residents.
Herd immunity is getting more and more important as people travel more easily, and the numbers of the human race go up, as the chances of someone infectious passing it on to those who are yet to be vaccinated (say due to age) is much higher now than it was when people didn't tend to very busy locations all over the place on a regular basis.
The sad thing is that often it isn't the idiots that refuse immunisation that are worst affected by it, but those who were either too young to have it, or have weakened immune systems.
But the really scary thing is, that apparently there is an issue with getting some medical professionals (mainly nurses), and people working in hospitals and care homes to get vaccinated - I think in some states of the US (or at least hospitals) there is a rule that if they don't get vaccinated they have to wear face masks all the time during things like "flu season", but personally if I knew that rule and saw a nurse wearing one for no apparent reason, I suspect I'd request a different nurse (if someone is ignoring vaccination advice whilst working in a hospital, I'm not going to trust them to not ignore other fairly basic advice/best practice).
IIRC there was a fairly recent, quite serious outbreak in the US, from memory when they tracked it back it was due to an unimunised woman who went to Disney Land/world whilst infectious, and passed it on to dozens/hundreds of others.
Apparently the area the park was located in is also one of the places with the lowest percentage of immunised residents.
Herd immunity is getting more and more important as people travel more easily, and the numbers of the human race go up, as the chances of someone infectious passing it on to those who are yet to be vaccinated (say due to age) is much higher now than it was when people didn't tend to very busy locations all over the place on a regular basis.
The sad thing is that often it isn't the idiots that refuse immunisation that are worst affected by it, but those who were either too young to have it, or have weakened immune systems.
But the really scary thing is, that apparently there is an issue with getting some medical professionals (mainly nurses), and people working in hospitals and care homes to get vaccinated - I think in some states of the US (or at least hospitals) there is a rule that if they don't get vaccinated they have to wear face masks all the time during things like "flu season", but personally if I knew that rule and saw a nurse wearing one for no apparent reason, I suspect I'd request a different nurse (if someone is ignoring vaccination advice whilst working in a hospital, I'm not going to trust them to not ignore other fairly basic advice/best practice).
I think if someone decided that their 'choice' caused the death of my child.. I'd not be in a state of mind to be in the same room.. or state.. possibly the same country..
Seriously - being able to chose should also mean that they are liable for the financial cost and legally (manslaughter - benefit of the doubt as it's not premeditated to gain?).
Seriously - being able to chose should also mean that they are liable for the financial cost and legally (manslaughter - benefit of the doubt as it's not premeditated to gain?).
Soldato
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Fines for rich people who also choose not to vaccinate to balance it out.
Why should it be aimed at the poor and vulnerable again?
However I do also agree it's a good idea.
Why should it be aimed at the poor and vulnerable again?
However I do also agree it's a good idea.
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Soldato
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I think given child benefit and family tax support rates in Australia, cutting such welfare for those who are not immunised will be a significant impact on any family.
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I see they finally get religion in on the last paragraph. I was scanning for religion or muslim.
That kind of comment just makes me angry.
I had the MMR, I got mumps 6 months later. My first daughter had the MMR and got measles soon afterwards.
My last child is 4 years old and vaccine free, she is a very healthy child. Not had a single problem with her health and is amazingly forward in schooling.
So, because I refuse to put my last child through that same scenario, I am an incompetent parent?
I saw an article on t'Internet recently about an anti-vaccer whose four children all contracted whooping cough at the same time. She was very pragmatic about it but what a waste of medical and hospital resources. She also said she would leave the ani-vaccine movement.
*edit* it was SEVEN children!!
http://www.alternet.org/culture/ant...ement-after-all-7-her-kids-get-whooping-cough
*edit* it was SEVEN children!!
http://www.alternet.org/culture/ant...ement-after-all-7-her-kids-get-whooping-cough
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Soldato
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In my opinion, I wouldn't say incompetent, but certainly acting without consideration for the herd. Not every vaccine will be 100% effective, nor will everyone have perfect uptake, but, if everyone had vaccinated their child against mumps, there would have been no one for your first child to catch it from.
In my eyes, this is a great idea. If you want to reap the benefits of living in a civilised society, and want that society to pay for you, then follow its rules regarding general health. It really shouldn't need to be said to parents to vaccinate their children, but unfortunately some are just too stupid to understand or care about the need, and so coercing them into doing it with the money stick makes perfect sense.
Well done Auz, I hope other countries follow suit!
Well done Auz, I hope other countries follow suit!