Auto or manual

Kenai said:
I think on a BMW TC auto you can hold the downshift paddle for a bit (not talking seconds but slightly longer than a very quick tap you'd usually do) and it'll block change down to the most appropriate gear for max acceleration? i.e. effectively replicating the behaviour of the kickdown switch.

I'd guess a lot of modern TC autos can do this. I've not tried similar in my DSG but I don't think it's a function.
Click to expand...

Can confirm that my 440i appears to do the above (ZF8HP). My S3 didn't have anything similar, but never stopped me multi-tapping the paddles to get to the desired gear (unless such a change would have caused an over-rev), I never had it not comply with any number of "flicks". If I was in 5th and I hit the down paddle 3 times, I'd be in 2nd, always.
 
Last edited:
paradigm said:
never stopped me multi-tapping the paddles to get to the desired gear (unless such a change would have caused an over-rev), I never had it not comply with any number of "flicks". If I was in 5th and I hit the down paddle 3 times, I'd be in 2nd, always.
Click to expand...

Same, if I'm cruising along in 6th and I need 2nd or 3rd for an overtake then I can move mine into S, then flick up 3/4 times which will put it into manual mode and then select (and it'll stay in) whatever gear I flicked to. Takes just a second to do if I don't want to rely on kickdown.

My gearbox is definitely not up there with the best, most responsive units, but as Jez said above, you soon learn how to get it (and any others) to do what you want.
 
paradigm said:
Can confirm that my 440i appears to do the above (ZF8HP). My S3 didn't have anything similar, but never stopped me multi-tapping the paddles to get to the desired gear (unless such a change would have caused an over-rev), I never had it not comply with any number of "flicks". If I was in 5th and I hit the down paddle 3 times, I'd be in 2nd, always.
Click to expand...

My experience with my vRS is pretty much this - if I select 2 or 3 downshifts, that's what I get. Perhaps what causes Iamzod issues is it sounds like he's dealing with a box with no paddles and bumping the selector forward and back isn't as seamless as using paddles - three quick taps on the paddles is probably quick enough for it not to mess about trying to select gears in the middle and getting confused, whereas using the selector is much slower and would probably cause it to get muddled because it'll start performing the first command before you give the second, then perform the second before you can give the third etc.
 
Kenai said:
I think on a BMW TC auto you can hold the downshift paddle for a bit (not talking seconds but slightly longer than a very quick tap you'd usually do) and it'll block change down to the most appropriate gear for max acceleration? i.e. effectively replicating the behaviour of the kickdown switch.

I'd guess a lot of modern TC autos can do this. I've not tried similar in my DSG but I don't think it's a function.
Click to expand...
Same on M-DCT. Small kick down switch you can feel on the pedal. If you floor it past that then click down one it will go from 7th straight into 3rd
 
Simon said:
Same on M-DCT. Small kick down switch you can feel on the pedal. If you floor it past that then click down one it will go from 7th straight into 3rd
Click to expand...

Pedal yes, DSG does that via the pedal too, what about the paddle though? Does M-DCT do block shift by holding the paddle like the TC boxes do?
 
Ah misread sorry. No you cant, to be honest i've never wanted it as you can pretty much tap the amount of changes you want without upsetting it and i dont think holding for longer would be faster. How long do you need to hold for?

I avoid the kick down where possible as it will overheat the clutch
 
Simon said:
Ah misread sorry. No you cant, to be honest i've never wanted it as you can pretty much tap the amount of changes you want without upsetting it and i dont think holding for longer would be faster. How long do you need to hold for?
Click to expand...

Never timed it (for obvious reasons), but I'd estimate half a second.
 
[TW]Fox said:
I mean every automatic gearbox since any of us were born has this to be fair :D
Click to expand...
I think you are getting confused with auto mode and manual mode of an auto box. Kick down in auto mode is obvious.

In this case we are talking of manual mode, without you pressing the paddle it wont do anything and just stay in gear. The point is about block changing. Some boxes have to go through the gears, some like the new ZF, as mentioned above, you can hold to skip without kick down, others need kick down button then the paddle pressed. Alternatively if you have a good responding box you can literally press down 4 times and it will go 7>6>5>4>3, but other boxes wont do that properly

This is in response to those who think an auto box does what it wants when it wants like some voodoo magic that as a drive you are always left confused.

I guess this is the key point, many types of auto boxes and control out there so need to understand it before saying autos are stupid
 
Simon said:
Not at all, cause without you pressing the paddle it wont do anything
Click to expand...

Oh, in which case slightly different to DSG then, as that'll block shift just from hitting the kickdown position on the pedal, no additional input. Effectively as per any other auto.

That said, not tried it in manual in a high gear to see if it would still auto shift down by hitting kickdown.
 
I’ve been looking at getting a new car recently and settled on a Polo Gti, they come in manual or with a Dsg box. I decided to go manual because I didn’t like the idea of me not knowing if it had been serviced correctly or the additional cost of servicing, just another thing to go wrong type of thing. Then I learned the Dsg was limited to 250nm of torque and the manual has 320nm, decision made.
 
Iamzod said:
It doesn't allow the same control, and the Skoda not having Paddles is pretty relevant as neither will the Mondeo being discussed (or at least was being discussed), it'll be a Ford Powershift box which also suffers from the same issues.

If i'm in 5th and tell it to shift down 3 gears I don't want a 0.7 second delay followed by 4th gear and then another 1.5 seconds at which point it then changes to 2nd, by this time it's ****** me off and i'm half way into having another go at the stick, I want second and I want it when I move the shifter not a few seconds later. And that's the other issue, if I stick a manual in 2nd, I know it's in 2nd, I don't have to start looking at the display to see if it's complied with my request. I want to enjoy driving and sloppy inputs don't work for me, whether that be the brakes, steering or gearbox.
Click to expand...

I own the 2.0 petrol Mondeo with the powershift box and it does indeed have the paddles. Whilst there is some delay when pushing them to override the gears I've never found the delay to be anything like the amount you are describing. I wonder if it's potentially because mines only a 6 speed box versus the DSG's 7 but it's rare I'd need to drop more than 2 gears to perform an overtake. If I felt something that big was coming up, I'd probably just knock the box into S and let the car take care of it instead.
 
paradigm said:
It will.
Click to expand...

Saves me trying it out tomorrow morning on the way to work :p

I only tend to use manual mode for 'spirited driving' where i'm keeping it in particular gears down a B road, very rarely have any cause to be in manual in a high gear and then suddenly need to be three gears lower - usually it's sat in D or S for that sort of 'ooh there's a gap to overtake' scenario
 
after having read a few more threads on zf(tc) versus dct eg.
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&f=72&t=1715526&i=20

definitely think I recommend a zf style, over dct to my father who wanted to surrender his manual,
the aspect of pulling away more smoothly, and slow speed parking control - sometimes he rides the clutch a bit too.

thread comments there, that the zf8 itself is long, and needs to be mounted longitudanally, althought there is now a 9 speed transverse, probably mean less likely to find zf anyway, in a smaller car he wants.
The BMW zf comment about sport being too aggressive, keeping the revs high, whilst comfort can be too relaxed, and why bmw don't give more changing options is interesting ..
a future advanced mode on idrive ?
 
zf9 speed is transverse in mine. Decent enough and much better with the new structure on the Facelift (same as new evoque) but its still not quite as good as the 8HP i had in the Velar.
 
For me it has to be a manual. I love the engagement of a manual and the responsiveness - when you are in the right gear you just go. You don't have to wait for the gearbox to catch up. I have a manual in my daily driver, a Lexus IS250, and don't regret it even when sitting in traffic.

Modern automatics have massively improved. The automatic in my bosses 2017 330e (just given back) is good but not good enough. You can still confuse it. The DSG in the pool car (Skoda Superb petrol 2019) is dreadful - I often throw the gearbox out and have to wait for it. It's an awful thing to drive.

The best automatic I have driven is the new Alpine A110. This is responsive and enjoyable. It doesn't get confused easily either. If I could get the car with a manual though I would - I'm just like that!
 
Jonnycoupe said:
zf9 speed is transverse in mine. Decent enough and much better with the new structure on the Facelift (same as new evoque) but its still not quite as good as the 8HP i had in the Velar.
Click to expand...

It's interesting that BMW went with the Aisin 8 speed for their transverse platform rather than sticking with ZF.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom