Autonomous Vehicles

jigger · 18 Nov 2017 at 14:34

Jokester said:
Yes. Why not? We put up with humans driving them (approximately 90% of crashes are due to human driving by the way), so anything that makes our roads safer should be encouraged.

When Tesla added Autosteering into their range, there was a ~40% drop in the Tesla crash rate.

I've never had a crash. Can AI say the same?

Why wouldn't people AI want a machine making life and death decisions? What if one of 5hose decisions was to run your wife or child over? Would be happy with that because someone decided that was the best course of action?

What if the AI took into consideration impact form a potential load spill and the effect that would have on peoples health?

I think too many are putting to much faith in AI and transport. It should be met with extreme scepticism.

Kenai · 18 Nov 2017 at 14:35

Like every other job that has been replaced by automation, there will always be resistance and a reluctance from those in the field to accept that a machine can do what they do better than them.

It will come for everyone sooner or later, the only things in the way are the cost effectiveness of developing a suitably clever automated solution vs the cost of the status quo.

Driving vehicles is quite a simple task in the grand scheme of things, it doesn't require much in the way of special ability.

I have no doubt that in years to come, my profession will come under threat from automation or at least assistance that will allow increasingly less 'skilled' people to do what I do.

GarethSouthgate · 18 Nov 2017 at 14:35

jigger said:
I've never had a crash. Can AI say the same?

Are you the whole of the driving human population then?

GarethSouthgate · 18 Nov 2017 at 14:36

Kenai said:
Like every other job that has been replaced by automation, there will always be resistance and a reluctance from those in the field to accept that a machine can do what they do better than them.

It will come for everyone sooner or later, the only things in the way are the cost effectiveness of developing a suitably clever automated solution vs the cost of the status quo.

Driving vehicles is quite a simple task in the grand scheme of things, it doesn't require much in the way of special ability.

True. People in the US resided the seat belt so it's no surprise.

jigger · 18 Nov 2017 at 14:42

Moses said:
Does a car or lorry driver have a chance to make a meaningful decision when a crash is happening? It'll all be over in a split second and they're not making a clear, conscious decision who lives and who dies.

My point is who decides how the AI makes it's choices and sets the paramitors. Is it even right to alow the AI the choice or task someone with that job.

Jokester · 18 Nov 2017 at 14:45

jigger said:
Why wouldn't people AI want a machine making life and death decisions? What if one of 5hose decisions was to run your wife or child over? Would be happy with that because someone decided that was the best course of action?

Yes, you are of course correct, I would be much happier if my loved ones were killed by a human driver. It's the personal touch isn't it?

Glaucus · 18 Nov 2017 at 14:46

jigger said:
My point is who decides how the AI makes it's choices and sets the paramitors. Is it even right to alow the AI the choice or task someone with that job.

programmers and/or governments, yes it is right as you decrease crashes which deceases the number of people injured and killed. It realy is a silly argument, it is already happening, they are already testing and it is clear that goverment are and will allow it.

jigger · 18 Nov 2017 at 14:47

sigma said:
Are you the whole of the driving human population then?

Can AI claim the same? I do feel we should have a strike rule for people that have to many accidents or Insurance claims. Maybe those people should be forced into small self driving cars, but that is another discussion .

Kenai · 18 Nov 2017 at 14:48

jigger said:
My point is who decides how the AI makes it's choices and sets the paramitors. Is it even right to alow the AI the choice or task someone with that job.

Is it even right to allow a single regular person the choice, with the added parameters of fear, panic and pressured thinking thrown into the mix?

The AI can think faster, stands a better chance of avoiding it in the first place, can effectively think by committee following extensive discussion and debate amongst the designers about how to react... It has a great many advantages really, if you give it a chance.

It must be approached with caution to ensure we develop it appropriately but scepticism is the wrong reaction.

jigger · 18 Nov 2017 at 14:49

Jokester said:
Yes, you are of course correct, I would be much happier if my loved ones were killed by a human driver. It's the personal touch isn't it?

So as long as the AI made the best choice. Interesting. Would you give the person the same compassion?

Kenai · 18 Nov 2017 at 14:50

jigger said:
Can AI claim the same?

The average AI system can claim a significantly better accident rate than the average human driver.

jigger · 18 Nov 2017 at 14:52

Kenai said:
Is it even right to allow a single regular person the choice, with the added parameters of fear, panic and pressured thinking thrown into the mix?

The AI can think faster, stands a better chance of avoiding it in the first place, can effectively think by committee following extensive discussion and debate amongst the designers about how to react... It has a great many advantages really, if you give it a chance.

It must be approached with caution to ensure we develop it appropriately but scepticism is the wrong reaction.

Yes I agree a computer can do all those things but it can also malfunction and make the wrong decision for the right reasons.

Jokester · 18 Nov 2017 at 14:52

jigger said:
So as long as the AI made the best choice. Interesting. Would you give the person the same compassion?

Of course I would be emotional about it - but making decisions purely based on emotions is completely the wrong thing to do when it comes to public safety.

jigger · 18 Nov 2017 at 14:54

Jokester said:
Of course I would be emotional about it - but making decisions purely based on emotions is completely the wrong thing to do when it comes to public safety.

And building an AI to make the correct decisions all the time is impossible.

Kenai · 18 Nov 2017 at 14:55

jigger said:
Yes I agree a computer can do all those things but it can also malfunction and make the wrong decision for the right reasons.

A human can malfunction too.

So far your arguments against AI drivers apply equally or more so to human drivers.

No one is arguing it is perfect, just that's its better than humans, more of the time.

Jokester · 18 Nov 2017 at 14:55

jigger said:
And building an AI to make the correct decisions all the time is impossible.

Absolutely, but they already build them better than human drivers.

Kenai · 18 Nov 2017 at 14:56

jigger said:
And building an AI to make the correct decisions all the time is impossible.

Do humans make the correct decisions all the time then?

The stat that matters is which one makes the correct decisions more often, a battle that AI is currently winning.

Approaching this with the attitude that it's only an improvement over humans if it's 100% perfect is irrational.

jigger · 18 Nov 2017 at 14:57

Jokester said:
Absolutely, but they already build them better than human drivers.

I've never had a crash. I can't be the only one.

Jokester · 18 Nov 2017 at 14:57

Jigger are you employed as a driver?

jigger · 18 Nov 2017 at 14:58

Kenai said:
Do humans make the correct decisions all the time then?

The stat that matters is which one makes the correct decisions more often, a battle that AI is currently winning.

Nope. Maybe we should ban people. That seems to be the logical conclusion a lot of Al systems come to.