TBH, the tax intake went down when the 50% tax rate came in. It hasn't gone back up since. That tells me regardless of anything else that the tax is a little too high. It is well known that many foreign investors and entrepeneurs have said they won't work in the UK until the tax is more aligned with other countries.
Autumn Statement 2012
- Thread starter Cosimo
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Flawed statement alert.
Absolute poverty (global standard)
Relative poverty (local standard).
I hope you enjoy & relish this new information & it was as fun for you to read as it was for me to type.
Soldato
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Not sure you are following this correctly.
You said "People had to work to eat" as if that was a bad thing. That's what 90% of the adult population do now is it not?
I said with the exception of pensioners, children and the disabled of course people should have to expect to work to eat.
That is my point exactly. The relative poverty system is flawed and degrades the absolute poverty.
Soldato
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I have heard of this one, it came up in that TV program by the economic historian called 'the history of money'(or something like that). It also said that the difference between the top and low earning was best at a multiple of 30. If I remember correctly it was based on the post-war economics of America(the 1950's).
I will have to check that program out. Sounds right from what I remember.
Soldato
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Or you could believe the entrepeneur on BBC Newsnight who said when the tax statement was made that entrepeneurs expect to struggle and could cope with anything Govt throws at them. He was worth mega-millions. When have people thought that tax was NOT too high?
It doesn't degrade either or anything - they are two different standards, as relative poverty causes just as many mental & social problems as absolute poverty.
Relative poverty eixsts in third world Africa aswell & causes an additional level of misery to the people.
Absolute poverty is lacking the basic things to survive (food,water,shelter) - missing meals is in part (Which some of the very poor in the UK are doing) does qualify - relative poverty is a psychosocial self-image problem - in which the individual suffers from reduced self-esteem due to not having the same standard of living as the people around them.
This has been linked to a multitude of social problems, such as crime, aggression, violence, suicide & reduced social cohesion.
The attitude of "ohh, worse off people in Africa exist, so we can ignore the relative poverty in the UK" - is not only incredibly short sighted but highlights the lack of understanding of complex social problems we have in the developed & developing world respectively.
Soldato
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And so when the economic cycle turns to negative and there is a lot of unemployment, as it does every four or so years, you let the able bodied starve.
Soldato
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Again you are going away from what you originally said. Let's go back again....
That sentence to me implies jobs are available but you think it should be a choice and food should be provided regardless of that choice.
If literally no jobs exist then that is a different issue and not what I'm talking about. I'm saying that if you can work you should work, it shouldn't be a lifestyle choice whereby you get a certain level of free stuff if you simply choose not to work.
Personally I'd like to see next to zero regulation at the bottom end. For example, I was watching a video on YouTube of a busker being arrested by the police because he didn't have a street performing licence (which no doubt cost hundreds of pounds) and thing like this should be abolished. You can't start a business or make a bit of cash legally nowadays without a 6 figure sum behind you and good lawyer.
It is almost impossible to legally make your own money when you have nothing. We currently live in a world where the poor have no choice but to rely on established businesses to provide jobs, if people could make money legally by busking or making things and selling them without all the legal barriers stopping them now then you'd create the next business owners from a selection of the motivated poor.
Associate
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That would not be a bad thing really.
* Women and men dressed well in public. No visible midriff, no tracksuits.
* Stuff got done. Canals got built railways got built.
* People were not work shy.
* The advancement of the UK through engineering and science was the number one priority.
Obviously we don't want the rampant poverty of inner city slums, the early mortality and the high level of disease.
Oh and curiously despite being almost prudish in public the Victorians liked lots of sex behind closed doors. It just wasn't done to talk about it.
Bring back the empire
Working back in retail for the past 10 months has shown me one thing, people do have the money for the latest and great technology, especially up here in the NE, a labour stronghold
People moaning for the sake of moaning
Soldato
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rofl, no they don't.
Yes they do, I go to Asia a lot, especially South Korea. I know a lot of them. Most of them I can only see socially on a Sunday.
To expand on South Korea. They work those kind of hours frequently. They take very little holiday. I go there for at least 2 weeks every year and quite frequently get told that if they or a co-worker took more than a week off in a year they would be fired. They are expected to work everyday except Sunday.
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Soldato
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The Asians work 24 hours a day and pay the Miller for the privilege, didn't you know that? It's why Britain is on the decline with its cushy 9-5 work day, weekends off and a paid salary.
As WC once said
"The vice of capitalism is that it stands for the unequal sharing of blessings; whereas the virtue of socialism is that it stands for the equal sharing of misery."
Until we can get a capitalist system were everyone takes responsibility for debt and not just a certain few, then we will always be in a similar situation
"The vice of capitalism is that it stands for the unequal sharing of blessings; whereas the virtue of socialism is that it stands for the equal sharing of misery."
Until we can get a capitalist system were everyone takes responsibility for debt and not just a certain few, then we will always be in a similar situation
Soldato
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That's a brilliant quote.
Soldato
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Taking into context the subject being discussed i.e. Victorian Times, it is hard to imagine your modern day thought of them having some sort of choice as to whether to work or not.
A every modern day Govt. tries to wrestle with that problem. The right want some form of US work-fare. However the real reason the Americans chose workfare was that it gave them a low cost workforce to do jobs that local state employees had previously done. This allowed them to sack employees which leads to more........
Personally I think you have to change the modern spiv culture. A lot of our society are at the something for nothing culture....e.g. MP's expenses. the latest one being swapping houses to other MP's to rent so they can claim it back on expenses. Media glorying in the 'bad lads' who sell dodgy goods/drugs etc. The list goes on.
Bad example as you then get lots of street vendors cluttering up the streets etc
A cynic would say that that is what big business wants(and usually Govt)...you have to accept what they offer if you want any lifestyle at all
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Anyone remember this Autumn Statement? It was the one where the Chancellor told parliament that he'd cut the deficit for 2012-2013, which momentarily wrong-footed Ed Balls a bit because everyone was expecting it to go up. It was only later that it became apparent that Chancellor had used, lets say, creative accounting worthy of Enron - namely including expected revenue from the 4G auction that hadn't happened at the time of the Autumn Statement. Well would you believe it? The 4G auction raised £1.1bn less than expected which means that the deficit will likely not be cut this year, contrary to what the Chancellor said in his statement to parliament. Oops.