Av speaker upgrade worth it ?

Bipole speakers typically have a two sets of drivers angled in, and both are pointing out. They are both in phase.

Imagine putting your left & right speaker together, with the backs facing each other. Use a "mono" mode, and that is basically a bipole.

https://images.crutchfieldonline.co...20/378/products/2010/12/760/x760iMGS5B-f.jpeg

Dipoles also exist, they are similar, however one side (front facing) is out of phase. What this means it's hard to determine where they are as they "blend" in

Physically bipole and dipole look identical.

You can buy those types with 4 driver, or some are 5 driver. Tripoles also exist, they are similar to dipoles, but have a front facing in phase driver(s) M&K are I believe the only speaker maker with tripoles.

Since these types have more drivers, they will cost more than the same range of say standmount- since they have double the number of drives.

I've used dipoles too. Never had tripoles as they are typically pretty expensive, I think £1100 for the M&K ones, although they do have a K range which is about £600, but they are a bit small for my taste.

Currently using four (two pair) Definitive Technology BP-2X's. I paid £400 in total for the four (which is a bargain) So shop around.
 
Edit . Just read up on bipoles and from what I can gather there better for the rear / surrounds , for general movie /tv they wont make much of a difference would they,

In your room, I think they will. I find if you use normal speakers, for side/surrounds, in a small room - or if you are close to them- they are too distracting, sound field is not spread out enough.

Also as you upgrade your L/C/R, you may find surrounds to be lacking in sound quality.

Borrow a pair of bipoles and see what you think. Cambridge make some surround speakers, switchable between bipole and dual monopole.

https://www.cambridgeaudio.com/gbr/en/products/speakers/aero-3
 
Just to give you a push towards upgrading. I had a system running on a older entry level receiver and small 5.1 system (wharfedale ms100), I upgraded to a slightly better amp and a modest speaker upgrade - it was definitely worth the ££ is cost me to do the upgrade.
 
If I were you I'd sell your existing speaker set and buy second hand a 5.1 set with physically much bigger speakers probably bookshelf/standmount for your budget you should as others have said see a huge improvement and I think that will give you a better all round experience than just changing your centre you can then use that as a basis for your next upgrade which you know is inevitable!
 
I went in a couple of places yesterday and listened to some Q Acoustics 3020, Tannoy MERCURY7.2, DALI SPEKTOR 1 and Monitor Audio BRONZE 1 all of the speakers listed where matched to the centre within that line up.

There wasn't a big difference between them to be honest but with being in different shops it was hard to do a back to back comparison. I got the Tannoy Mercury 7c Centre Speaker and a pair of Tannoy Mercury 7.2 for£200 which was the price just for either the centre or stand mounts on some of the other brands I looked at today. The size of the new speakers make the previous satellite speakers look like a ten pound Bluetooth speaker that you'd pair with your phone , below is a pic to show the difference in size.
p586LrW.jpg


I've not put the brackets on yet and have just sat them on the av unit and computer desk, already there's a big improvement in sound. I ran the auto set up and the amp has set the crossovers as
Front 40hz
Centre 90hz
Surround 90hz
Lfe 120hz

@lucid Do the crossovers look right ? shouldn't the surrounds which are the tfx sats be set at 140hz/150hz also I'm mounting them over the weekend , would it be worth bringing the fronts out along the wall so that the front of the speakers are level with the chimney breast so that the speakers aren't sat right in the corner.
 
I went in a couple of places yesterday and listened to some Q Acoustics 3020, Tannoy MERCURY7.2, DALI SPEKTOR 1 and Monitor Audio BRONZE 1 all of the speakers listed where matched to the centre within that line up.

There wasn't a big difference between them to be honest but with being in different shops it was hard to do a back to back comparison. I got the Tannoy Mercury 7c Centre Speaker and a pair of Tannoy Mercury 7.2 for£200 which was the price just for either the centre or stand mounts on some of the other brands I looked at today. The size of the new speakers make the previous satellite speakers look like a ten pound Bluetooth speaker that you'd pair with your phone , below is a pic to show the difference in size.
p586LrW.jpg


I've not put the brackets on yet and have just sat them on the av unit and computer desk, already there's a big improvement in sound. I ran the auto set up and the amp has set the crossovers as
Front 40hz
Centre 90hz
Surround 90hz
Lfe 120hz

@lucid Do the crossovers look right ? shouldn't the surrounds which are the tfx sats be set at 140hz/150hz also I'm mounting them over the weekend , would it be worth bringing the fronts out along the wall so that the front of the speakers are level with the chimney breast so that the speakers aren't sat right in the corner.
Sure those will be a nice upgrade and they sound like a sensible budget choice! I would definirely bring them out of the corners speakers rarely sound good in a corner. Cross overs I'd agree with you on I'd also expect the centre to match the fronts get it all setup and play around a bit but most importantly sit back and enjoy it's easy to obsess and waste hours tinkering for little benefit!
 
"Do the crossovers look right"

No. The front one at 40hz is way too low. Others probably ok though. Look at the speaker specs, it'll say something like 80hz-20khz +/- 3dB.

Whatever that hz number is, set it to that, or higher. Not lower.

The size of the new speakers make the previous satellite speakers look like a ten pound Bluetooth speaker that you'd pair with your phone , below is a pic to show the difference in size.

They are still small speakers, ones I use are Width 280mm x height 1130mm x depth of 400mm, weight 50kg each

;-)
 
"Do the crossovers look right"

No. The front one at 40hz is way too low. Others probably ok though. Look at the speaker specs, it'll say something like 80hz-20khz +/- 3dB.

Whatever that hz number is, set it to that, or higher. Not lower.

The specs for the centre speaker are Frequency response (Hz) 62 - 32,000 and the fronts are Frequency response (Hz) 42 - 32,000 and the sub is Frequency response (Hz) 34 - 150 , is it a case of trial and error or personal taste and also equipment used with regard setting the crossover , I've seen a lot of people say 80Hz following what THX say but I would imagine that all set ups vary as some speakers do different things better and worse then others if that makes sense.

Would you run the auto cal and then fine tune from there,with regards the figures below what does the lfe figure indicate

Front 40hz
Centre 90hz
Surround 90hz
Lfe 120hz
 
Set to

Center 70hz
Fronts 50hz
Sub set to 120 on AVR crossover LFE. On the sub itself, set it to maximum

But you may just set all speakers to 80hz, with lfe at 80hz or 120hz, depending on which you prefer. 120hz is standard because that is the LFE cut off point, if you set to below that than information is lost. Personally I don't like subwoofer set to 120hz it's too high

There is some customisation, for example if you had whopping great floorstanders you could choice of crossovers however with smaller speakers you have less choice as frequency response is higher so you won't set lower than the spec. For example I have huge floorstanders, with 3 x 8" drivers, and 1 x 6" midrange, they have a decent frequency response so have a choice of 40-80hz

Your speakers have -/+ 6db figure, I figured that out even before looking at the specs, before no way would a small speaker have 42hz frequency response. Add another 10hz or so with proper +/- 3dB figure for that specs, so I'd set them to 80hz.
 
Speaker layout

oD51Cg.jpg



Drawing done to reflect the room dimensions given:

Room length = backwall to chimney breast + depth of alcove = 3400 + 370 = 3770
Room width = 3400
Alcoves = 2@ 950 x 370 (W x D mm)



A standard method for stereo speaker layout uses the idea of an equilateral triangle (all side lengths equal), and so the speakers are the same distance apart as the straighline distance from the listener to each speaker. In an equilateral triangle each corner is 60 degrees, so using trigonometry it's possible to calculate the distances based on the distance from the listening point to the chimney breast. Now, the sofa is hard against the back wall, and so allowing for an average backrest depth then the listeners ears will be roughly 400mm from the back wall. So the listener to chimney breast distance is 3000mm.

At 3000mm, the speaker distance apart is 3462mm. That's a bit of a problem though in a room that's only 3400mm wide... ha ha ha.

However, the room is used for movies, so using the same listening distance of 3000mm we get speaker positions just on the borderline of the DD specs at 440mm from the left and right walls.

Surround speakers should be level with the listens ears, so 400mm forward of the rear wall. This part of it may of may not be practical depending on the doorway and which direction the door opens in to the lounge.

Speaker heights
- front soundstage tweeters all the same height if possible. Since the centtre speaker hight is dictated but the fireplace shelf then the front L&R should be the same height for the tweeters.

Surround speakers for 5.1 should be 30~60cm above the listener's ear level.

If the wires are already in place for corner mounting, try turning the spearker up at a 45 degree angle to face the ceiling. This will bouince the sound off the ceiling a-la Dolby ATMOS reflecting speakers and create a more diffuse surround effect from monopole speakers.

Front speaker angles - Tilt all three down so that the tweeters are firing at the sweet spot/prime listening posistion


Front L&R speakers, distance from rear wall - work from the manufacturer's recommended distances if possible. The Mercury 7.2 have a recommended distance of 500mm from the back wall. This won't be practical in your room unless you buy tall speaker stands, and even then it'll get in the way of the PC desk, so you'll be running much closer to the back wall than recommended.

Audio tuning - stereo speakers: Put on some music you know and set the amp to Pure mode; this will (or should) drive just the front stereo pair with a full range audio signal and minimal processing from the amp. Use a good quality music source of a track that you know well and that can be set to repeat play. You'll need to play at a fairly high volume to hear the speaker working effectively in the space. This process doesn't work at background listening levels, so if you're likely to get grief from a significant other for the racket being made then better to do this when the house is empty.

Start with the speakers close to the back wall. Ideally the tweeters should be at ear level when you're sat in the main listening position. If you can manage this then face the drivers forward so the backs of the speakers are parallel with the back wall.

Long story short, with them hard against the back wall they should sound bloody awful. Bloated bass, indistinct midrange. Move them forward about 5cm at a time and play the same 30 second segment of the track. You should hear improvements in the bass and midrange; bass notes starting and stopping more cleanly, vocals easier to follow. Repeat the move and listen process.

Once you have a rough idea where the best distance is, repeat this process but this time use the bass port bungs (the tubular bits of foam you left in the packing box). If the speakers are sitting on a cabinet, table or shelf, use the rubber feet (also in the box) to give some isolation from the surface. With the bungs in place there'll be less bass bloat where the speakers are closer to the wall than recommended.

After finding the best distance you can achieve in the space available, then start to toe-in (angle) the speakers gradually to get the front sound stage to image. With speakers that are closer together than the stereo optimum they shouldn't require much toe-in at all.


Acoustics of the room: for any sound system, the room is at least 50% of the final result. Great gear in a bad room will never perform its best. Mediocre gear in a great room will produce far better results than expected. But the room is the one element that most overlook, and even when it's recognised it's still the most difficult element to alter when it's a domestic living room.

There are some minor changes you can try though. Use books on shelves to make the alcoves and irregular shape. This'll help break up the soudwaves so the alcove isn't lensing the backwaves from the speakers so much.

Another good trick is to bring the sofa forward 40-50cm. With the sofa hard against the back wall your ears pick up a lot of the reflected sound. Give it some space and the effect is lessened. Acoustic panels can help too, but could be tricky to get the go-ahead from a significant other ;) Try the sofa trick when you have the house to yourself one day.
 
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