I have no idea what you just tried to say in the bolded section.
Also
Actually you kind of just did when you said he should have put more thought it his opening question.
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Badly behaved, you fail.
- Thread starter Hagar
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Soldato
People with Tourette Syndrome would like a word
Soldato
Controversial opinion incoming - I don't believe they are all genuine. I have a niggling feeling that it's far easier for some parents to excuse their child's behaviour by saying its "because they have <insert 3 letter acronym here> so it's not their fault" rather than instilling discipline into their kid's life... Too many parents want to be their child's friend these days.
Soldato
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it's not perfect but when you consider a couple of badly behaved scrotes.can disrupt an entire class of 30 kids then it gets to the point where Mr Spok would argue the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few.
my lad had a (thankfully only for a few months) period of coming home from school with bruises and was even bitten once due to 1 child who was terrorising his class. he had to be taken out of the class and was put in a special class with other kids with issues.
his parents were furious because he wasn't (isn't) a stupid kid apparently but now is in a class where some of the kids can barely read etc .... but what choice did the school have?. it's not like their finances can cope with such issues.
for 1 year of my GCSE maths I ended up going down a set (maths is not my strong suit).. and it was mayhem ... thankfully I did get back up again but it's an impossible situation for schools and for teachers.
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Soldato
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so what is your solution then? mix everyone up and hope the high fliers drag up the disruptive ones? because I can say with experience that won't happen, everyone will get dragged down.
the best a school can do (and let's face it it's a postcode lottery if you even get this) is to offer all students the opportunity to achieve the bast they can. if a student chooses to pee that up the wall that sucks, but don't let them mess up the lives of those around them as well imo.
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Except it is extremely hard to get a diagnosis and the opinion of the parents is irrelevant when conducting psychometric evaluations
Soldato
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so unless i am missunderstanding you.
you propose all teachers be trained in mental health support and class sizes should be smaller.
I mean, that sounds fantastic............. it also sounds really really expensive. I would love it to be the case, my A level physics class had .... iirc 6 people in it and that may well be the only reason i passed it as i had a lot of extra help (top tip dont do A level physics without doing A level maths!!!). having that level of support right from foundation would undoubtedly help a lot of kids.
but i suspect the costs on what you propose will be more than would ever be made available (and no its not a right wing issue, i do not see labour freeing up the funds needed for such a huge investment either)
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These changes have a positive ROI so are easily afforded due to the long term benefits. The UK only spends 4.1% of GDP on education, and Italy much less.
But funding is just a distraction. These are solutions that are proven to work. Purposely failing pupils provably has terrible outcomes, which was the debate. The UK being a sovereign currency issuing county has zero problems paying for improved educational outcomes that match other more successful countries.
Soldato
Without knowing how these are carried out, I cannot comment. Can you share your expertise and insight into these assessments a little?
Oh, you are mistake - I never said the parents opinion had any bearing on the actual evaluations - I was referring to the point that, once they have a diagnosis, some parents will then lean on that diagnosis rather than actually parent their child. Essentially, some of them will almost absolve themselves of instilling discipline into their child by using the Mental Health diagnosis as an excuse for their child's behavior and pretend the parent can do nothing about it..
all great ideas that would improve the quality of teaching, but considering how you belligerently you came in here to declare to everyone how you have the one true solution I couldn’t help but notice that your suggestions don’t really deal with the issue that was raised.
Children aren’t being aggressive and disrespectful towards teachers because the classes are too big.
And while some forms of mental health may end up being expressed through aggression towards teaching staff (though I reckon the vast majority of issues the teachers deal with have nothing to do with mental health), mental health is not an excuse to remove consequences for actions, neither is it a blank cheque for kids to behave however they like.
The ROI is less clear since most children will end up being productive members of society, so you are planning on increase the cost of schooling significantly in the hopes of elevating the minority.
There is also the issue of how long can you sustain it before you can see these returns. Ignoring primary school that’s 10 years (assuming a 3 year uni degree) before a person under this new type of schooling is in the work force and then however many years after that before we could judge whether the schooling changes made that person far more productive to the economy than the previous generation.
No I didn't. I suggest you go back and read the posts again more carefully. Once you have addressed that I can see if the rest of your post makes any sense
I know and everyone else here knows, that you damn well read my full post, so nobody is buying the “see if the rest my post make sense” nonsense you tacked on the end. You just don’t have a response which is fine and I know you will continue to weasel around and ignore it.
And yes you were billigerent you dismissed Gepetto and called his opinion worthless. At least you could own it.
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No, honestly I have far too much on my mind and cosnidering the very first statement you made was wrong I had no energy to continue. But in good faith I will respond in full.
ehh, no . You made a claim
Which is completely false. I never made such a statement, I merely mentioned that there are well known solutions and best practices that have been tested and proven to work. I am not proposing a solution at all.
I dismissed Gepetto because his opinion is worthless, he is not an expert and did not provide any supporting evidence. That is not an insult.
You have the casual relationship wrong. Large class sizes make it difficult for teachers to provide individualized attention and personalized curricula, which is critical for helping pupils achieve and realize their potential or to mitigate frustrations or moderate for any deficiencies which are all causes of pupil misbehavior.
Many mental health issues can lead to aggression indirectly . For example, anxiety and depression can all contribute to aggressive behaviour.
- https://www.cambridge.org/core/jour...-peerreports/14EC623E4325FA3619F34B5B5E5D3241
- https://www.apa.org/education-career/k12/violence-educators
- https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0145213422005166
- https://www.into.ie/app/uploads/202...-Teachers-Exposure-to-Physical-Aggression.pdf
- https://cdn.adolescenciasema.org/usuario/documentos/Teachers recogn MH.pdf
- https://files.eric.ed.gov/fulltext/EJ1362563.pdf
- https://thrivealliancegroup.com/recognizing-mental-health-issues-classroom/
You reckon mental health is not a significant cause, perhaps you can provide some references
No one said it was, but properly supporting children with mental health issues will go a long way towards resolving aggressive behaviours towards teachers amongst many other benefits.
Most children, but not those who are having difficulties at school. Failing a student and forcing them to repeat the year will do absolutely nothing to helping them resolve underlying issues. The long term impacts on social security, crime, unemployment and secondary impacts on other pupil's abilities more than compensates for the modest upfront costs.
The overall costs are not significant, and the benefit it the whole of society.
- https://www.amigosii.org/how-does-supporting-an-education-charity-benefit-a-child-in-need
- https://www.unicef.org/reports/benefits-investing-school-based-mental-health-support
- https://www.acf.hhs.gov/sites/defau...#2023-226 Benefits from ECE Highlight 508.pdf
- https://childcareleadershipalliance...f-quality-early-childhood-education-and-care/
initial returns are likely seen within a few months - th impact on teachers and other pupils will be seen very soon with appropriate interventions.
Luckily this research has already been done so we don't actually need to wait, we already know.
ehhh??? Calling someone's uneducated opinion that isn't backed by external reference as being worthless has nothing to do with the erroneous claim that I "have the one true solution", which is the only point i objected to.
As to my experience, i have not once provided my opinion but merely proposed the opinions of actual experts based on their empirical studies, so my experience is somewhat irrelevant because i am not proposing anything but reciting well known best practices. My credentials and experience here is that not only do i have a degree in psychology where I had a keen interest in psychometrics, i also have a PhD and numerous publications that have afforded me the ability to read and digest peer-reviewed scientific literature. More personally, my son has autism and ADHD and i have spent the last 2 years extensively reading the state of the art and working with cantonal and national experts and have taken on their advice and objectives in order to best support my son and work with the local education board, my son's psychologist, psychiatrist, social therapist and educational support staff to try and get the best outcome. Thus i have both theoretical knowledge based in decades of peer-reviewed science, i also have first hand practical experience. I have gone from crying in the psychiatric ward of a hospital after my 7 year old was found on the school roof threatening to kill himself (and after having threatened several people with a knife), to having him potentially being placed in a class above his age group because his attainment already exceeds the year and the additional stimulus helps him tremendously - all due to the support of many specialist, doctors,.medicines and specialist teachers.
And i still consider my opinion worthless relative to the actual experts
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