Ballon D'or final 3 announced

jakeke said:
Yeah, that's why Messi's goalscoring record is also to be taken with a pinch of salt! I just think that league is a farce
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However, the discussion is basically, Messi vs Ronaldo, not if they'd score as many in the EPL. Ronaldo did better in the same league, so its pretty comparable.

From every individual landmark Ronaldo had a better season before you even factor in he did it with a worse team.

In terms of the league, not sure I agree, Ronaldo scored a crapload in the EPL as well and has gotten fitter, stronger and better so is not surprisingly scoring more, but not much more in La Liga.

The worst teams in La Liga have gotten worse, the worst teams in the EPL have gotten worse, I would be surprised if Ronaldo came back to Utd if he couldn't beat his previous scoring record.

They've also both scored excellently and better than almost everyone else, consistently for years, in the champs league, which pretty much takes out "la liga" as a factor in their high scoring. If it was down to the league, they'd score less in the UCL, or at least if the EPL was soo tough to score in, strikers from the EPL teams would do better in Europe.

Likewise, at the moment RVP is scoring at a rate of goals per games not dissimilar to Messi/Ronaldo.
 
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You can only beat whats put in front of you, and i don't believe in the theory that the rest of the league is complete dross either.

Against Barca and Madrid the sides do get unstuck and made to look average, partly because as a nation Spanish sides try to play football the same way and the other teams are just worse at it, so get spanked.

Its done wonders for their national team though, compared to the mess that is English football where the majority still play see ball, kick ball, chase ball.
 
It's totally uncompetitive due to the distribution of the money, it's pathetic. Hopefully things will change in years to come, apparently Barca are happy to even it up a bit but Real are having none of it. The money Real and Barca have has helped the national team, the national team is basically Real Barca FC anyway
 
The first 11 is, but way the entire nation plays means when they replace someone (injury, form, friendly, or whatever) they don't have to as a national side change everything about how they play to accommodate the new guy.

Unlike England, "oh Rooney's now injured so we have to play X, which means we now can't play Y because Z has to play" etc etc

re: Money situation.
Its not going to help the league changing it at all, and its only going to weaken Barca and RM in Europe by giving them less cash.
Sure, spread the TV rev around more fairly, yet the two teams in question will still have more then 400% more income then the competition anyway through bigger better sponsorships, attendance, merchandise etc, so the league will still be unbalanced.
 
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Yeah, but the teams outside of the top 2 might have a hope of operating without massive debt and it will make life immeasurably better for them

May mean they can afford to keep onto their best players for longer instead of Barca/Real just buying whoever they want whenever they want. Like a rich man walking past a tramp and throwing him 50p.
 
Its a head to head between Ronaldo and Messi. There two completely different players so its hard to decide. Who would you want in your team? I think Messi is more of a team player while Ronaldo is an out and out goal scorer.

Either way my vote goes to Messi. Both great players.
 
messi will win it hands down, imo hes the greatest to even play the game, he has everything, the through ball against AC milan sums it up for me, he took out 4 players with an eye of the needle scholes/xavi esque pass that they even dont attempt to do that often, it was incredible.
 
I think both would come back and frankly make mockeries of any defence. As much as it pains me I think I would probably have Ronaldo in my team though. I think he gives you just a few more options in how to attack, given that he can literally be a one man counter attack, can put it in from anywhere, near, far, almost takes penalties as well as Balotelli and that's some feat :p, and an excellent header of the ball.

Messi is better when your team can control a game. Can probably play a better through ball than Ronaldo but largely because Ronaldo would probably just shoot instead, has *the* finest close ball control you'll ever see, which is just exquisite to watch, and above all, just seems like a really, really likeable guy. He has lumps kicked out of him all the time and he just seems to either ride it or get on with it, maybe because all the Barca players complain on his behalf, but his calmness has always been quite amazing. That said, and tbh Barca control every game so I've very little to back this up with, more a hunch, I think Ronaldo is more likely to be your one man army.
 
Scoring records in la liga should be taken with a pinch of salt given how ridiculous their league is.

That said, Messi and Ronaldo are probably the two best footballers who have ever lived - Messi shades it though.
 
Both players have mental records in CL too, Messi is only 18 odd away from Raul's all time record. He'll probably get to his record by next season!
 
http://stats.football365.com/dom/ESP/PL/overview.html

http://stats.football365.com/dom/ENG/PR/overview.html

That is the la liga and EPL table, anyone saying La liga is completely uncompetitive while the EPL is the best, needs to work out what they are basing that on.

7 points covers the first 3 teams in BOTH leagues, Barcelona have played 1 game more than City, yet have 4 less points. The lowest team with 20 points is 7th in both leagues,

two teams in the EPL have less points than the lowest teams in La liga. Both Real and Barca have lost in the league this season, City have yet to lose.

On what basis is it uncompetive vs this league, the top two most years are the same, fair enough, but the EPL is normally very similar, just the top two tend to change more often, though most seasons the top two tend to run away with it.

the EPL's highest losing team is Bolton with 11 losses, 2nd bottom, the worst team in la liga has lost 9 games and are 4th bottom. The bottom three in the EPL have a GD of - 42, bottom three of La liga have a GD of -38.

The EPL is ONLY less competitive in that the top two change far less often, but other teams in la Liga have been in the top two, and until Chelsea got silly money it was utter Arsenal/Utd dominance for years, in the last, I can't even remember now, 7 years, only the two richest clubs have won the league.

I'm failing to see the big differences, crap teams that get utterly spanked? Check and check, both leagues have them, stupid goal scoring top teams, yup, no chance of a not rich club winning the league, yup, daft talent and money hoarding by the top teams for years, yup.
 
To those insinuating Messi or Ronaldo are the "greatest of all time", it would be wise wait until the end of their careers, although they are definintely candidates.

At present the top 3 for that accolade, in my humble opinion, would be:

1. Diego Maradona
2. Zinedine Zidane
3. Johan Cruyff
 
sandy10 said:
To those insinuating Messi or Ronaldo are the "greatest of all time", it would be wise wait until the end of their careers, although they are definintely candidates.

At present the top 3 for that accolade, in my humble opinion, would be:

1. Diego Maradona
2. Zinedine Zidane
3. Johan Cruyff
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Messi is better than zidane, hands down, and cruyff aswell.

Its between him and Maradona.

Messi wins that contest for me.
 
Alpherah said:
Personal preference, both amazing players but the style in which Messi plays is more attractive (ohh err) to me, so on the basis that i would rather see Messi, Messi > Zidane :p
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According to players and journos he isn't either, as I'm pretty sure UEFA did a vote of the best player of the past 20 years in the champions league and Zidane got it ahead of Messi.

Only Zidane and Ronaldo have won World Player of The Year 3 times as well, this is when it was separate to the Ballon D'or.
 
Well considering the highest total Zidane scored ever in a season was 15, messi 53.

Messi: 53 Goals
24 Assists
55 Appearances

That is phenomenal.

zidane was fantastic but he could go missing against lesser opposition and he wasnt a match winner, if you know what i mean.

Messi is capable of anything, goals, assists, just the best player to ever play the game IMO.

Zidane was breathtakingly good at times too though.
 
Comparing goals between Messi and Zidane is madness. Zidane didn't play in anything like the position that Messi does. It's just silly.

Although my argument is pointless though, as we all know the majority of this forum adore Barca and Messi.
 
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