It's also been widely acknowledged that the acute social housing problems we have today stem from the Thatcher right to buy era i.e. she sold off vast swathes of social housing which were then never replaced. This has led to huge amounts of public money going to line the pockets of some very unscrupulous private landlords who are clearly ripping off the taxpayer.
Baroness Thatcher has died.
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It's also been widely acknowledged that the acute social housing problems we have today stem from the Thatcher right to buy era i.e. she sold off vast swathes of social housing which were then never replaced. This has led to huge amounts of public money going to line the pockets of some very unscrupulous private landlords who are clearly ripping off the taxpayer.
Under John Major's later tenure when it was clear that social housing was in crisis, there was a significant increase in social housing funding for investment in low cost housing, so much so that it is estimated that over 300,000 more families would be in social housing today. While the subsequent Labour Govt embraced these changes to some extent, they also didn't recognise the one piece of the puzzle missing, and that was local Govt housing stock...instead relying on the private and voluntary sectors and funding them directly. If anything the Labour Govt was as much to blame for not getting to grips with the social housing crisis as was the previous Conservative Govt and the changes the Blair Govt did make such as statutory LSPs etc only served to deepen the crisis, rather than relieve it.
There is a positive and negative side to RTB, for one it broadened home ownership so that it became accessible to the wider populace, but on the flip side it put too much emphasis on home ownership as the preferred policy.
The Labour Govt did not do anything different.
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Word for word it was the same for my Parents. They were responsible and saved and now my dad is retired in a house that's fully paid for and takes holidays debt free. And he was a working class waiter for most of his working life!
The fact is that a lot of people refuse to take personal responsibility for their situation.
Soldato
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We had similar in NI yesterday, or attempts to soften, it was rather amusing when the political analyist started talking, and used the words devisive, and lack of understanding over and over while the presenter tried to keep it all very bland and talk up the good points.
She was clearly not content to toe the party line.
The one show tried to utterly sit on the fence yesterday, to be hit from the other side, Joan Collins seemed to love the woman, and didn't mind telling everyone over and over that she did. Fair enough, as least she had a viewpoint, and not splinters in her ass.
She was clearly not content to toe the party line.
The one show tried to utterly sit on the fence yesterday, to be hit from the other side, Joan Collins seemed to love the woman, and didn't mind telling everyone over and over that she did. Fair enough, as least she had a viewpoint, and not splinters in her ass.
Soldato
No.
Ever wonder why that might be the case?
Is it because this isn't Nazi Germany?
Well if they're going to enforce misinterpreted legislation and dictate to me what goes into my mouth they might as well get held to account over what comes out.
Doesn't really evoke any emotion tbh. The celebrations of her death are just pretty disgusting though, if you really didn't like her that much surely her being gone is enough? taking to the streets with that sentiment is pretty shameless.
Overall good on her. Shes going to be remembered and talked about long after all of us are gone. David Cameron? give it a few months past the next election and he will be nothing more than a name that gets overlooked on a list of past Prime Ministers.
Overall good on her. Shes going to be remembered and talked about long after all of us are gone. David Cameron? give it a few months past the next election and he will be nothing more than a name that gets overlooked on a list of past Prime Ministers.
Soldato
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You really are going to have to stop reading THE SUN.
Are you denying that the unions had too much power in the 80s and the ridiculous amounts of strikes there were?
Soldato
Why, isn't it written by honest hard working non biased journalists to attempt to fairly elucidate all of the issues facing us as a sociological Earth dwelling species in a balanced way which neither demonises the leftist lazy scum nor not so subtly advocates right wing policy, attitudes and agendas? Phwoar, get a load of those ****.
Soldato
I don't really care about street parties.
I don't really care about the Tottenham riots either.
Always very easy to condemn actions and people without first unbiasedly examining the social causes giving rise to those actions . ?End thread.
I don't really care about the Tottenham riots either.
Always very easy to condemn actions and people without first unbiasedly examining the social causes giving rise to those actions . ?End thread.
Ah yes, the voice of perspective, well said that man.
I was 12 years old when she came to power and grew up during her tenure with a Liberal mother and Tory father, both working class. I went to a Comprehensive in a heavy mining area that had generations of miners families around me. I left school far from the most qualified but got out there and made it happen, never got a hand up, never got a silver spoon and never looked to others to provide. The country was dire in the 70's and early 80's, she changed it for me for the better and allowed me to do well but I had lots of mates who didn't and usually it was someone else's fault and that someone was Thatcher often...in their mind. I didn't see it that way but some people do and some people want and though an over simplification of course, they tend to fit the camps of lovers and haters of The Thatch more often than not.
I can't speak for the miners, their families or others who feel hard done by, but unlike I suspect many on this thread I felt it and lived it and I think that adds flavour to your perspective. The unions had to be crunched they were taking the pee and even if she did many things wrong, for she did, she stood for something and sadly we lack that today. To suggest she did nothing good as many do is idiotic and ignorant, blinkered by perception perhaps.
Be interesting to see a poll of who was born when she came to power or even when she left power. I personally don't believe this thread is full of learned sorts who have read about all aspects of her reign so probably will be mainly people forming opinions based on their current voting choice or what mum and dad have told them, which I think undervalues it and misses the Zeitgeist of the time. In 1979 Great Britain was a very different place to today so judging her on current political graces is, in my opinion (and that is all it is) shortsighted.
Absolutely - they didn't have enough. Look at what has happened since, Thatcher took away whatever small amount of power the unions had. As a result the British workforce today is a low wage economy with lots of crap jobs and a workforce that easy to get rid of. Why would any right minded working person think that's a great legacy? Astonishing.
Absolutely - they didn't have enough. Look at what has happened since, Thatcher took away whatever small amount of power the unions had. As a result the British workforce today is a low wage economy with lots of crap jobs and a workforce that easy to get rid of. Why would any right minded working person think that's a great legacy? Astonishing.
When you say 'right minded' I assume you mean the incredibly small number of people who support your perspective?
I think you may be suffering from a little confirmation bias, there have been plenty of articles, reports and opinions from those that did not support Thatcher in any way.
Source for your assertion please?
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Never really quite understood 'ability to pay'. Surely if everything was priced on this then no one would want to work hard or bother with overtime etc. What would be the point if it meant you would just have to pay more for everything compared to lower earners?
Ah yes, the religious approach to debate. As someone who has run companies and employed people and as someone who mixes with many people who do the same I say you are talking simplistic left wing twaddle.
None of the 3 major political parties support your stance that the unions should have been given more power either. All of the opposition leaders of the time have commented that they had become too powerful and needed controlling.
People at the time voted the torries in for the very reasons that they were tired of business as normal, that being held to the mercy of a few socialist nutters trying to create turmoil for their own ends and using their, often enforced members, as chess pieces in the big game.
I can't imagine you were of the age that remembers the 70's, remembers having no light, no heat, no money due to strikes?
Soldato
Absolutely - they didn't have enough. Look at what has happened since, Thatcher took away whatever small amount of power the unions had. As a result the British workforce today is a low wage economy with lots of crap jobs and a workforce that easy to get rid of. Why would any right minded working person think that's a great legacy? Astonishing.
Did Labour in their tenure work tirelessly to give back some of that power or did they continue to line their own pockets while sticking two fingers up at the proles? Did they reverse anything from the Thatcher/Major years other than ensure Britain became the lapdog of America where once it made policy decisions in America?
In a nutshell this country went down the pan due to the unions. Red Ken and Scargill lived in luxury while the men they "fought" for suddenly had to downsize because their astronomical and unrealistic pay was suddenly not there anymore?
Union BS goes on even today. If for example someone wants to move from working for British airways as a senior engineer into GAES, they have to start as an apprentice. Why? Because the unions won't allow that person to be hired, so it does go on still.
Where were the unions when my employer at the time decided we could take a 15% paycut or lose our jobs? Totally disinterested and uninformed, thats where.
All this rubbish about housing shortage is horse**** too. Thatcher wasn't voted out last week. Labour have had 12 years to sort it, instead making it worse. Take Newport in S wales. There was an area in docklands where cheap housing was built (on the former blackspot factory by George St bridge iirc) the condition was that one person could own a flat cheaply. It was stipulated that you couldn't buy more than one place.... Unless you were an Asian Labour party supporter who happened to be allowed to buy whole blocks and rent them out.
But hey, this thread is about someone who took unpopular decisions and didn't sugarcoat them like todays ruling elite. She was in touch with the people and not some ponce toff who believes that the common man cannot think for himself and so must be decided for, much like a child. That is a great tragedy in so much as that the common man now has come to accept it and even willingly allows himself to be willingly submissive to the state.
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