Baroness Thatcher has died.

[estebanrey]

100% not..One picture your having a laugh. I did ask for a link to all that you was saying as I know you would not make it up.

"One Out, All Out" was a common protesting phrase amongst the miners, watch the video I posted above and you'll hear it said several times.

 

[elmarko]

But haven't you forgotten something? There are two sides to every coin. You underestimate the number of customers you will have but that should mean another company overestimates the number they will have, meaning they have to sell their energy, which you can pick up cheaply and vise versa. With one entity you have the possibility of a major cockup either direction and then it starts costing a lot more money than it would otherwise.

It gets sold/o repurchased at the current market rate which is driven by the price of natural gas/oil.

You can't look back retrospectively & know which side of the coin you will be on, you have to build in the market risk into the rates by creating a buffer in profit margin (to be able to absorb the impact of market changes).

Each supplier has a totally different hedging strategy, purchase over different periods & have a different risk appetite - it's not possible for it to simply cross-over in the way they you are suggesting.

While it seems unpopular to admit it on here, privatisation adds multiple addition costs which don't exist in a public sector system (advertising, acquisition costs, customer churn, debt write off (as people switch), market purchasing risk etc) - these add onto the bill along with the rising cost of wholesale gas & the green energy commitments.

 

[SexyGreyFox]

I disagree,vehemently. My post, number 1269 adequately casts doubt on your regards towards miners per se. You also again advise to read words exactly, need I go any further?

Alright then let's have it your way if you want to play at semantics.

Yes, yes, absolutely yes, when I said GREEDY MINERS I meant all miners around the world who mine everything from tin, gold, silver, diamonds & coal.
I should have said Greedy Stoke On Trent Coal Miners.

You won the internet yet again

 

[Castiel]

I am NOT doing the same as 'Dimple' . I feel I have been respectful with you while you shroud your unsolicited comments in apparent wisdom and resonability.

You were respectful until the last few posts when you changed the focus of your discussion from the content of my posts to me personally. As for my reply being unsolicited, I am afraid that I did not reply to you initially, I replied to Robbo and the very nature of an open discussion would imply the large majority if not all posts are unsolicited in one way or another...for example your initial reply to my post to Robbo.

The totality of your lengthy posts amount to pretty much nothing other than safe middle gound comments that cant be substantiated one way or another.

With the exception of the aforementioned anecdote, everything I have said is corroborated and and a matter of historical record. Whether you think it is a middle ground or not is up to you, personally I see nothing inherently wrong with a middle ground position.

A poster a few posts ago even mentioned head butting and punching, a pointed question, is that reasonable?, if not why is no one pointing accusatory fingers at him instead of failing to paint the miners as overpaid?

I do not know what you are discussing whether another poster is being reasonable or not, I have been and continue to be nothing but reasonable and civil to you and that should be what is important in our discussion. I would also point out that I have not said that Miners were overpaid, I said that they earned substantially more that the average person, something that has been borne out by several other peoples illustrations.

 

[Robosapien]

Divisive, engaging, what's not to like? Let's re-invigorate the broken machinery of British politics. Conquer and divide, definitely. Quick everyone, let's give this dying broken system another burst of life and merit by arguing pointlessly as to what corner we sit in. Or let's sit on the fence and parrot the 'unbiased' news coverage.

The major weakness of the working classes:- naive trust in good intentions and inability to recognise exploitation.

 

[Iraklis F.C.]

The major weakness of the working classes:- naive trust in good intentions and inability to recognise exploitation.

i would also add, inability to form unions who genuinely care for the people who they represent ie the workers.

 

[Robosapien]

i would also add, inability to form unions who genuinely care for the people who they represent ie the workers.

Agreed. My union did absolutely ZERO to help me as an individual when I needed it. In effect just another form of localised government, appeal to the masses, get the vote, get paid to do a mediocre job of failing to succesfully negotiate with those whom seemingly hold all the cards. Not in the Unions interest to end the fight anymore. Just another useless, out-dated body.

 

[BF-Bert]

I would love a link to that please.

I can remember watching TV and MT was asked in the prime minister's question time if she was shutting down
15-20 pits she said NO. But she did. It's a bit like did MT do deals with the IRA in public NO but in reality YES.

Was Parliament televised at that time?

 

[Iraklis F.C.]

Agreed. My union did absolutely ZERO to help me as an individual when I needed it. In effect just another form of localised government, appeal to the masses, get the vote, get paid to do a mediocre job of failing to succesfully negotiate with those whom seemingly hold all the cards. Not in the Unions interest to end the fight anymore. Just another useless, out-dated body.

so thats why what i have recommended to my fellow chaps over here is that unions in the way they are formed and functioning are outdated and always one step behind the on-goings. We dont need no leftist, romantic, shouting fancy slogans , we need something else, which ofcourse is a huge debate

 

[Purdy]

Sure, think what you like!

I imagine most of your hate stems from the Hillsborough disaster, t'was all her fault, after all.

lol, barf.

 

[Robbo]

lol, barf.

What's upset you about that? Have you not seen the reaction of Liverpool fans in general to her death? It's terrible.

 

[Purdy]

What's upset you about that? Have you not seen the reaction of Liverpool fans in general to her death? It's terrible.

It was aimed in a mocking manner towards Suarez7 and in general seemed to have that tone.

It is hardly surprising the reaction of many of Liverpools fans as many of them are from one of the cities that was raped by thatcher, I mean to consider abandoning it lol?

Also the other extreme of the tonguing she is receiving from certain people, unsurprisingly a fair few rich people is fairly hilarious as if she was faultless and couldn't have acted in any better way.

Did you live through the thatcher era?

EDIT: Also the reaction isn't terrible in my view, people must be in extreme contempt of her for numerous reasons and feel she wrecked their lives at that point in time.

 

[oulton]

I am serious and her economic principles are that we should focus on what we do best. If someone abroad can make steel cheaper, let them. The point being we focus our efforts on what we do well. This is the reason for our shift away from manufacturing to services. You do also realise the reason we had so much heavy industry was because we exported so much historically?

The flaw in your argument lies in the concept of value. Thatcher could not see the value of anything without looking at the profit and loss. What about the education system? What about our public libraries, our cultural heritage, our poor, our ill? Thatcher cared for none of it.

At 28 years of age I earn in excess of 100K and would benefit a lot from a Thatcherite government. It's just that I would rather live in a society which doesnt only value money.

Thats not 100% true, it is merely one factor. The gas we used may have been sourced from the UK but that does not equate to cheap prices. If we did not have a free market in domestic gas supply, it would be riddled with inefficiency

Not true I'm afraid, our free market colludes to raise prices year on year, in fact Britain is showing the fastest growth in energy prices in Europe.

 

[Robbo]

It was aimed in a mocking manner towards Suarez7 and in general seemed to have that tone.

It is hardly surprising the reaction of many of Liverpools fans as many of them are from one of the cities that was raped by thatcher, I mean to consider abandoning it lol?

Also the other extreme of the tonguing she is receiving from certain people, unsurprisingly a fair few rich people is fairly hilarious as if she was faultless and couldn't have acted in any better way.

Did you live through the thatcher era?

I didn't (not for long anyway). I also don't think she was faultless at all, but unless she's some kind of war criminal, I don't see why people would celebrate her death. Even then, it's a bit crass to do so.

It's just like the miners, they were happy and didn't want any change - well, the world changes and she called their bluff and took them down, and for the better, ultimately.

EDIT: Also the reaction isn't terrible in my view, people must be in extreme contempt of her for numerous reasons and feel she wrecked their lives at that point in time.

Yes, but they're blaming her for all of their problems when in reality she didn't cause all that. The miners ended up with a raw deal but they - coupled with their unions - put themselves in that position. They wanted more money/their demands and were happy to hold the country to ransom for it.

 

[newbiejim]

You were respectful until the last few posts when you changed the focus of your discussion from the content of my posts to me personally. As for my reply being unsolicited, I am afraid that I did not reply to you initially, I replied to Robbo and the very nature of an open discussion would imply the large majority if not all posts are unsolicited in one way or another...for example your initial reply to my post to Robbo.

I think I was respectful, fair point about posts being unsolicited per se.

With the exception of the aforementioned anecdote, everything I have said is corroborated and and a matter of historical record. Whether you think it is a middle ground or not is up to you, personally I see nothing inherently wrong with a middle ground position.

Barely anything you have claimed is satisfactorily provable imho, we can all find spurious facts and figures etc, it was impossible at the time to have meaningful facts about the viability of the mines etc.
The BIG claim of the huge wages has been shown to be almost impossible to prove, IMHO the reason is this wage you claim pretty much never happened at all.

I do not know what you are discussing whether another poster is being reasonable or not, I have been and continue to be nothing but reasonable and civil to you and that should be what is important in our discussion. I would also point out that I have not said that Miners were overpaid, I said that they earned substantially more that the average person, something that has been borne out by several other peoples illustrations.

Of course you know, fgs man a poster suggests headbutting and punching, by sidestepping this most obvious of moral tests you have let down your contrived measured posting style imho. Btw I didn't say you said miners were overpaid, however it is my opinion you implied it.

 

[Biohazard]

No problem with that. The problem I and others have is when personal insults start flying around as well as speaking ill of someone who is dead.

Respect the dead? Better respect ourselves, and say what we feel

Do we owe the dead respect, even if we disagreed with them profoundly, even if we were harmed by them in some way, even if we think that their legacy was damaging?

Street parties celebrating the death of Baroness Thatcher have been condemned for bad taste. They are certainly unprecedented in Britain at least, and there is an unappealing similarity with television images of people dancing on the fallen statues of dictators in parts of the world where nothing like the institutions and practices of British political life exist. In suggesting a comparison, we do ourselves no favours. But bad taste and false comparisons aside, the question remains: must we respect the newly dead, merely by the virtue of their being dead? We might be mindful of the grief of family and friends, but still feel that a judgement about the life and legacy of a prominent individual should be an honest one.

Should one not speak as one did when the person was alive? The story of a prominent individual's life cannot be complete without the truth about what people felt at the moment of summing up, whether it is in mourning or rejoicing. Let us say what we think, and be frank about it; death does not confer privileges.

An outburst of pleasure at the departure of someone who was deeply polarising and gave expression to callous attitudes is both perfectly understandable and justifiable. No quantity of apologetics about the good effect on the economy or the military situation in the world will satisfy someone who saw whole communities devastated by unemployment, livelihoods lost and neighbourhoods turned into wastelands: the felt quality of life is the final measure of the effect on individuals, and they have a right to their say.

Respect for the dead is a hangover from a past in which it was believed that one might re-encounter them either in this life or a punitive next life. In our more rational age, the democratic value of frank expression of opinions about public figures and public matters should not be hostage to squeamishness or false ideas of respect - let us respect ourselves instead, and say what we truly feel.

 

[newbiejim]

Alright then let's have it your way if you want to play at semantics.

Yes, yes, absolutely yes, when I said GREEDY MINERS I meant all miners around the world who mine everything from tin, gold, silver, diamonds & coal.
I should have said Greedy Stoke On Trent Coal Miners.

You won the internet yet again

Post number 1269 not adequately answered.

 

[Biohazard]

I was not very clear. I was thinking more long term. Even if Thatcher had turned around the rump of the mining industry and saved the associated jobs, those miners would never have voted for the Conservatives in future general elections (say 10 years down the line). Hence from a purely political stand point she and more importantly her party had nothing to lose by decimating the industry.

If anything I think she, and the City, had a lot to gain.

Look at us today.

 

[Suarez7]

Post number 1269 not adequately answered.

ROFL, read this in a robot voice.

I demand answers I are a robot.

 

[Purdy]

I didn't (not for long anyway). I also don't think she was faultless at all, but unless she's some kind of war criminal, I don't see why people would celebrate her death. Even then, it's a bit crass to do so.

It's just like the miners, they were happy and didn't want any change - well, the world changes and she called their bluff and took them down, and for the better, ultimately.



Yes, but they're blaming her for all of their problems when in reality she didn't cause all that. The miners ended up with a raw deal but they - coupled with their unions - put themselves in that position. They wanted more money/their demands and were happy to hold the country to ransom for it.

You don't need to be a war criminal to ruin peoples lives, millions of lives, also no, celebrating a war criminals death is not crass, if anything it is pointless since they haven't been made to suffer for every single person they caused to suffer.

No, they aren't, some are, some are complaining of the extreme hardships she created, others for situations then that they have escaped, don't generalise thanks.

It'd be interesting to have a poll on what everyone's parents thought of Thatcher if they were >16 when she was in power.

Decent watch of Glenda Jackson on Thatcher, and Bercow humiliating that tit at the end.

(I do agree on major changes needed to be done with unions and miners but also the decimation of thousands of communities was completely retarded and the measure of peoples importance being how wealthy they were was retarded, reading what Ferguson saw in the hospital of his mothers deathbed was pretty grim.)