When I saw the thread title pop up in new posts I was like hope this is an older thread!
Becoming an airline pilot
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When I saw the thread title pop up in new posts I was like hope this is an older thread!
LOL
Am I reading this right? You want to train to become a pilot? Now?
The industry hit hardest by COVID, which has sacked off something like 80% (figure plucked out my arse, DYOR) of its pilots and will likely hire back the most experienced pilots at the lowest possible amount and work them to the absolute bone, you want to train to do this? Do you hate yourself that much?
You're nuts. Go unblock toilets or something, far less stressful.
Am I reading this right? You want to train to become a pilot? Now?
The industry hit hardest by COVID, which has sacked off something like 80% (figure plucked out my arse, DYOR) of its pilots and will likely hire back the most experienced pilots at the lowest possible amount and work them to the absolute bone, you want to train to do this? Do you hate yourself that much?
You're nuts. Go unblock toilets or something, far less stressful.
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I'll take your word for that.
Trying to remember the details, but I had an interview with British Airways a few years ago now, I think if they hired you, you'd still have to get the loan to pay for training, but if you stayed with British Airways for 5 years I think, they paid it back.
My cousin is a pilot, I think he got a loan himself, to pay for training before being employed by anyone though.
My cousin is a pilot, I think he got a loan himself, to pay for training before being employed by anyone though.
Permabanned
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Friend of mine did the same, it was a six figure loan required IIRC.
As you’ve probably seen from my other thread, I’m a 15 year airline pilot with over 8000hrs and I’ve been made redundant. There are many thousands like me in the UK and hundreds of thousands around the world.
Now is absolutely not the right time to be spending any money and time on any sort of commercial licence and training.
However as you have said, if you have the interest and the spare cash then absolutely get your PPL and a few ratings (night, IR(R) and complex are useful, I wouldn’t waste money on a MEP) and just enjoy flying. Do it as a hobby for 5 years or so, get experience. After that you can see how the industry recovers and when us experienced pilots get mopped up you’ll be in a good position to continue your training if it still interests you.
Now is absolutely not the right time to be spending any money and time on any sort of commercial licence and training.
However as you have said, if you have the interest and the spare cash then absolutely get your PPL and a few ratings (night, IR(R) and complex are useful, I wouldn’t waste money on a MEP) and just enjoy flying. Do it as a hobby for 5 years or so, get experience. After that you can see how the industry recovers and when us experienced pilots get mopped up you’ll be in a good position to continue your training if it still interests you.
Sorry to hear that I hope you get back to it in good time.
Soldato
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A friend of mine has recently switched to cargo shes said that she got lucky on timings since she was training for it pre-covid and now her existing airline job is all but gone.
But to fly cargo you need years of experience in the military or airline, from what iv been told its not something you can generally do as a first pilot job. As others have said training to be a pilot now is a losers game.
But to fly cargo you need years of experience in the military or airline, from what iv been told its not something you can generally do as a first pilot job. As others have said training to be a pilot now is a losers game.
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Looking into the future, the industry will eventually recover and people wanting to get into it can position themselves well to enter the inevitable recruitment processes.
Demand for pilots will over the long term, only ever increase. It's like share prices; some events cause short-medium term volatility, but the trajectory in the long term is upwards.
That message might not 'land' well with pilots that have just lost their jobs, but eventually normality will return, freight, private commercial, tourism etc. will be back to normal and then some.
Demand for pilots will over the long term, only ever increase. It's like share prices; some events cause short-medium term volatility, but the trajectory in the long term is upwards.
That message might not 'land' well with pilots that have just lost their jobs, but eventually normality will return, freight, private commercial, tourism etc. will be back to normal and then some.
I do have a passing knowledge of my industry you know....
Covid-19 is by far the worst thing that has ever happened to aviation. The majority of airlines are flying 20-30% of their usual schedules. Most are losing hundreds of millions each month, and there is no end in sight. Over the winter more then a handful of airlines will collapse. It is going to take some large changes to persuade the public to fly again.
As such exactly what I said in my last post is correct. Doing any sort of commercial aviation training now really would be stupid and frankly a waste of money. You wouldn’t get a job at the end of it and would then have to keep all your ratings current, which is not cheap. You won’t be able to afford to fly enough to stay in decent practice and without experience it really is a very perishable skill.
The sensible thing, again is exactly what I said. If you are keen to fly ASAP, and can afford £10k or so then get your PPL. Enjoying the flying, gain some experience etc.
You aren’t wrong in that things will return. Yes they absolutely will return to normal, people both want to fly to go on holiday and need to fly for business. However I think you are being extremely optimistic in the timescales you are considering. I think it will be good if the industry gets back to 2019 levels within 5 years. But it’ll probably take longer. When it does recover there will be tens of thousands of highly experienced pilots looking for work, and brand new pilots with zero experience simply won’t be needed until the airlines expand again, which could be up to 10 years away.
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Like most jobs, it's an application process where experience is one factor of many. Personality, teamwork, enthusiasm, intelligence, qualifications, clarity of thought and communication, interpersonal skills, etc. will all play into an airline's recruitment process.
I look forward to competing for your job in 5 years
.Additionally I'm not sure an airline pilot that's been redundant for five years counts as currency, since as you point out, currency is crucial.
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Like most jobs, it's an application process where experience is one factor of many. Personality, teamwork, enthusiasm, intelligence, qualifications, clarity of thought and communication, interpersonal skills, etc. will all play into an airline's recruitment process.
I look forward to competing for your job in 5 years
I really am surprised you keep trying to tell me about my own industry. I know far more about the industry, including its recruitment practices then you do.
If you want to waste your money then that’s your decision. But I can tell you right now that your arrogant attitude won’t suit a flight deck environment.
I look forward to being the pilot in your interview in 10 years time so I can tell you where to go
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I really am surprised you keep trying to tell me about my own industry. I know far more about the industry, including its recruitment practices then you do.
If you want to waste your money then that’s your decision. But I can tell you right now that your arrogant attitude won’t suit a flight deck environment.
I look forward to being the pilot in your interview in 10 years time so I can tell you where to go
One thing that's been crystal clear in all my enquiries is that an incumbent airline pilot will be the first to tell you that you can't fulfill your aspiration of also becoming an airline pilot. One has to wonder what their motivation is for this approach.
I liken it to trying to get help wiring a socket on an electricians' forum; turkeys don't vote for Christmas.
The women flock to me in their droves, uniform or not #kidding. What I want is an end to the corporate BS.
If you actually read my posts without dismissing them out of hand as you seem to think you know better, I haven’t told you not become a commercial pilot. I’ve told you how to do it in a sensible and cost effective way.
Regarding currency, it is only an issue if you don’t have experience. An airline will take a pilot with experience over one that doesn’t simply because they are a known quantity and will reduce the risk to the company.
As I have tried to do in most of my posts, which is to give honest useful advice, you really need to work on your attitude. Arrogance as a pilot will kill you, and many others in a worst case scenario.
Regarding currency, it is only an issue if you don’t have experience. An airline will take a pilot with experience over one that doesn’t simply because they are a known quantity and will reduce the risk to the company.
As I have tried to do in most of my posts, which is to give honest useful advice, you really need to work on your attitude. Arrogance as a pilot will kill you, and many others in a worst case scenario.
Caporegime
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Like most jobs, it's an application process where experience is one factor of many. Personality, teamwork, enthusiasm, intelligence, qualifications, clarity of thought and communication, interpersonal skills, etc. will all play into an airline's recruitment process.
I look forward to competing for your job in 5 years
Additionally I'm not sure an airline pilot that's been redundant for five years counts as currency, since as you point out, currency is crucial.
Listen to the man, he's trying to help you. You're making yourself look foolish.
Blind optimism is great and all that, but knowledge and experience trump that.
I look forward to being the pilot in your interview in 10 years time so I can tell you where to go
So wish this forum had a like button!
Soldato
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This is madness.
You know even in the cargo sector few extra jobs haven't been created right? What happened (and this is from a cargo pilot) is that normally a lot of the cargo chain is actually carried in passenger craft with the other portion in dedicated cargo flights.
When the airlines stopped ferrying passengers all that cargo didn't simply get on newly created cargo routes, it instead got delayed until the already existing cargo planes could take the extra load. They didnt magically put on more cargo carriers due to Covid.
The airline industry is going to take years to recover, sure you could train in those years but there is absolutely no guarantee you would have a job at the end of it. The industry also now risks a massive race to the bottom, with wages capped and potentially even reduced as competition for jobs during any recovery would be huge.
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Not sure it is as simple as that (not that I know much about it) - I follow a few pilots who vlog and/or have YouTube channels like flightdeck2sim and several of them have talked about managing to scrape together extra work from additional freight/cargo/ferry runs, etc. that have been put on which has kept their income ticking over and/or moved over to that due to new openings when they were expecting to be unemployed.