Being headhunted, feeling dispirited at work, but at the centre of a brand new project…need advice

[dirtychinchilla]

Hi guys,

I’m in need of some advice. It’s tearing me up inside at the moment and whilst my wife is great to talk to, I need some more input. I've sort of been posting about it here already, but I'm feeling so conflicted so sorry in advance for the wall of text.

I’ve been working at the same company for 8 years as of next week. I’ve been there more or less since I left university, and I’ve got from CAD engineer to product manager in that time. I love the company, but in the last year I’ve been feeling like it’s too unstructured and I’m not really learning anything any more. I’ve expressed this in part to my two directors, who I have a very open dialogue with and a good relationship.

They gave me a poor pay rise recently and that, combined with how I’ve been feeling, have made me want to look for a new position. I don’t feel that I should have to fight to be paid a decent wage for what I’ve achieved. They are planning to come back to me before next pay cycle with a better figure, but part of me thinks they should have started with a better figure.

So, my CV is out in the world. I’m being headhunted now. I’ve had two interviews in two days for decent companies. One at least would give a much better package than I’m on now and that I’m expecting to get from my current employer. I also believe it’ll give me more structure so that I can really grow professionally. So as you’re reading this I’m imagining you’re thinking, that sounds like a no brained.

My current company has been like my home for 8 years though. In the last month or so they’ve started an expansion program and are bringing on new engineers and business development managers to form part of a new team, which I think I might be at the head of. Certainly my boss seems to be indicating that I’m a key player in that an I am the only expert on my product. He also made the comment that if I left there would be a hole that could easily be filled, but I don’t actually think I believe that.

So I’m feeling so conflicted already. My boss rang me earlier really excited about this new team and all I can think about is how I un-excited I am and that I’m sort of cheating the company and really, just not being honest with him about how I feel, which isn’t how I like to do things. But, I also don’t believe they’ll ever have the structure I feel I need because they never have done before and the boss is too much of a free thinker to bring structure in.

What I’d love to do is speak to someone in my company and explain how I’m feeling to see what they think, whether the opportunity really is in my current company for me or not. The general manager can be discreet, but he’s a bit of a bulldog. He’s also HR and can be objective when required. I feel like I should speak to him about how I’m feeling…or would that likely lead to my being screwed over?

I suppose I should remind myself that I’m in the process of buying a new house. I don’t actually have any offers on the table, though I am being put forward to second interviews at the moment. Should I just sit tight and feel ****** for a while until something proper happens?

New team is forming next week with new hires arriving the week after. And I’m in the middle. And I feel deeply uncomfortable.

Sorry for the long read…I’m trying to get my head straight. Thanks in advance for your time.

dirtychinchilla

 

[dirtychinchilla]

HR are not there to help you. Their purpose is to protect the company from you. Don't trust them.

I was in a similar situation to you. Then the company got sold. Then most people either quit or got redundancy. Family feeling company basically gone.

Trying to find a job after being at the same place for so long is tough. It's pretty daunting and in tech things have moved on. Defo believe there's a downside to staying at the same place too long.

I think it's a no-brainer in your situation coz ur clearly not happy where you are. The change would be good. Better package helps too.

I guess you're right. It could definitely backfire on me. I guess I'm just scared of it backfiring and burning bridges with my current company, which I do love in many ways. I want to be able to speak to my directors and explain to them why I want to leave without them taking it personally, but I can't see that happening.

That is universally true, no one is indispensible, CEO's PM's, it doesn't matter.
An old QS gave me some great advice years ago. If you don't feel you are being paid what you think you are worth, get a new job. Sounds like you are on this path already but positive action also helps with motivation and broadens experience. Good luck.

You're right. I also think I'm not giving them good value at the moment either because I'm feeling so demotivated.

 

[dirtychinchilla]

I would have thought if this new team is 'forming next week' you would have been told if you were heading up, rather than 'i think i might be'? If there's that little structure that it actually is the case such decisions aren't firm yet, I can see why that lack of structure would be starting to get to you - I couldn't work like that effectively.

To me, reading your post it sounds like in your heart you're already half way out the door. I recall reaching a similar point with my first employer - it felt as though despite several promotions I was taken for granted somewhat and they had started to treat me with an air of 'he won't leave, don't worry', so anything I pushed for always fizzled out. Once i'd reached that point, I needed to move on, even if they'd bettered my alternative offers, I wouldn't have stayed - i'd already mentally moved on.

Weirdly, it's already my job title - Sector Manager for Education. But it doesn't describe what I actually do. I wouldn't know how to or even want to manage that team though.

I think I am mentally moving on, like you did, but it's bloody painful!!

 

[dirtychinchilla]

Get some confirmed offers on the table then have a word with the Directors.

That's what I've been thinking. I just don't want a plan to be formed that I'm at the centre of, and then bail out.

 

[dirtychinchilla]

I would say it's a no-brainer to move, but then i started reading about how the company is growing and there is the potential of you heading up the team.

I would be gathering evidence on what your position pays and present it to your company - you want them to beat that. If they say they are unable to do so, then there is your answer, they don't value you and are prepared to lose you and all that corporate knowledge.

It may feel like a family, but they are profiteering off you and you are not seeing your fair cut.

I've already done that actually. Presented an average salary £9k above what I've just been bumped up to and they're coming back to me. But no way is it going to be £9k. It might be half that, and I'll be pulled out of the bonus scheme to make my income more predictable. I interviewed for a position yesterday that was more in that region, with a bonus and car allowance, so I would guess in the region of £10-15k above what I'm on now once all's said and done. That's hard to resist.

Honestly, I'm thinking of framing it in the sense of "I was headhunted and they made me an offer I can't refuse."

 

[dirtychinchilla]

As much as I agree with this, I disagree in equal measures. Well, I agree you shouldnt have to, but in my experience this is literally always the case. My wife has been working for 16 months now in a new role, which is 3 times the work her old one, as they "promised" her a promotion but only once she'd done that job for a year. The year has passed and guess what? No promotion. You'd think it should be a no brainer but companies and people are tools.

Fortunately it wasn't just me who pushed back, but I think I wrote in another response here that I'm not even sure I'm giving them good value at this point. They want to line their own pockets, of course.

Again, I think it's a combination of companies getting away with paying you as little as possible (all comes off the bottom line) and a lack of market intelligence to understand what people are paid in specific roles.

They claim a robust and objective process to establish mean salaries, but I think they've not hit the mark.

This says it for me really. Put it this way; they chuck 10k more a year at you, you work on this new thing. 6- 12 months later it's still all over the place, no structure and nothing else has changed. Will you be content, or will that 10k pay rise only get you so far? I think working out really what your catalyst is for being unhappy is important and what you need.

I would. Or, I'd look at what was important to me and what needs to change in your current situation for you to feel happier about the situation. I get the feeling reading this, that it'll only happen from a move, but that's not for me to decide. I'd look at what's out there, spend time on that and see what your options are. Then, once I'd seen if the grass is potentially greener or not, and you have options, have that conversation with your org.[/QUOTE]

I might be projecting excessive negativity, I don't know. A load of that will also be due to COVID and having been trapped at home for so long.

Thanks for the advice.

 

[dirtychinchilla]

Thanks for all the advice everyone. It's a tad overwhelming to reply to everyone.

With regards to the new team, they've actually just announced a new team member arriving next Monday under my mentorship. This just serves to make me feel even more uncomfortable! However, I think it cements that I will be leading this new team. Obviously that won't come with any particular pay rise etc. As long as they sort out my current salary situation, I'm not too fussed on that front. More concerned about what to do with this new guy, whether they'll just hand him over and expect me to know what to do or what!

But, I'm also quite set on leaving now. As much as the emotional attachment to this company is strong, I can see that I will benefit more from being in a different environment where I can learn more instead of the blind leading the blind (me being first blind!).

It feels good to have made my mind up. I'm now going to have to navigate attending interviews while getting this new chap started, which is a bit of a pain. Particularly as the wife and I currently share one car, which she needs 75% of the time.

 

[dirtychinchilla]

I've recently come through a similar situation at work in regards to a 'new and exciting project' that they wanted me to lead. While I could see that it was a big step forward for the function it was something that I just couldn't muster any enthusiasm for. I had a frank conversation with the CFO and told him that another 18 months of driving massive change in the capital function didn't appeal to me at all.

If its not a good fit for you, or something you want to be doing then you need to raise this. Obviously your ability to have that conversation is dependent on how well regarded you are at work, and what else you may be able to get involved in, but having somebody lead a significant change project who doesn't have the appetite for it is a nightmare for the business so they should be aware of this and plan accordingly.

With you saying this is your first proper job, I'd echo the sentiment from everybody else... its time for a change, you need to see what else is out there and how other organisations operate.

Thank you for your feedback. What was the result of you saying that you didn't want to lead the project?

 

[dirtychinchilla]

Surely any interview in the current situation is going to be a virtual one?

I did a virtual "interview" the other day. It was more of a chat really. I think it's reasonable that they'd want to meet you, if you aren't located too far from them, before you sign the contract.

 

[dirtychinchilla]

I've just been offered a job after 2 Hangouts based interviews.

very nice, congrats. I’d like to meet these people too, seems sort of weird not to, at least to me

 

[dirtychinchilla]

Until you have an actual job offer, so not speak to your current work about this.
At the moment there is the potential for either a) a new job, b) a change in your current role

No reason why you can't be excited for both possibilities at the moment.

Whilst you’re right, all I feel about the “new” role in my company is dread. I just don’t want to do it. Hence why moving seems like a much better option. It’s also a small company so I can’t really move departments without devaluing myself.

 

[dirtychinchilla]

It was very positive, they gave me the scope to design my own job spec and lay out exactly what I was interested in doing. Not to blow my own trumpet though, I'm a massively vital cog and one of 5 or 6 people that keeps a 70 strong team from falling flat on its arse. While nobody is indispensable, I'm about as close to it as you can get in a Finance role. Even then I had my trepidation's about the call, and it went better than I could ever have expected.

Oh great, I'm really pleased to hear that.

I wish I could do the same, but I literally don't believe the company is capable of it. It's only been since the weekend that my feelings have crystallised though.

Yeah, I was the same, but TBH I found I still got a good feel for the people I would be working with and had pretty much decided I would take it even if I got an offer from another place, incidentally I didn't but that was a 3 stage video interview process too.

Are you going to be working remotely the entire time then?

 

[dirtychinchilla]

No, funnily enough I only live a 15 minute walk from the business park the building is on so as soon as possible I'll be back in the office.

I much prefer going to work as opposed to WFH and now I dont even have the hassle of a commute when it returns to normal.

Haha brilliant. Commuting is the worst.

The job I'm most interested in is either 30 miles the wrong way round the M25 (Woking to Crawley) or 30 minutes on small roads. I'm going to do my best to negotiate expectations to be that I go to Crawley maybe once or twice a week, the other place maybe once or twice, and work from home one or two days. The idea of going in an office right now really doesn't appeal.

 

[dirtychinchilla]

Training up your replacement?

He's a graduate engineer, so I don't think he'd be my replacement. That being said, I just don't believe there is a replacement in the company for me right now. They'd either have to employ someone with experience or shunt someone up the ladder.

 

[dirtychinchilla]

The company are not your family. You’ll be replaced. If they thought highly of you in that sense they would already be paying you what you feel you deserve.

Leave.

You’ll hand in your resignation and they will attempt to keep you, but by that point they are just buying time so you stay until they can replace you and boot you for daring to challenge your superiors and having self worth.

Be selfish, your company have and always will be, they don’t owe you anything.

You are right, and I need to remember fall the times that they really wound me up with majorly screwed up behaviour.

While it is certainly good for some people, Money is often said to be the factor to move on, but it rarely is the primary factor. If they paid you a million pounds would you be infinitely happier at the job? It might be nice for a while but ultimately you're not being fulfilled. It may be time to move on, not just for money's sake.

No I wouldn’t be happier, but when I can see that they can reduce my monthly bills (car allowance) and increase my spending power with a higher salary and bonus, that’s appealing. It’s not all about money though; it’s about feeling like I need more training that I don’t think this company can provide.

 

[dirtychinchilla]

Wait, why are you even conflicted then?

I’d understand if this company were absolutely perfect bar the salary, but they clearly aren’t, why are you showing loyalty to a company that has given you none?!

Because it gets lost over time. They have shown me a lot of loyalty to be fair, like moving a guy sideways so that I could take the lead. That was quite good of them actually. They’ve just never been good at the money side of things.

 

[dirtychinchilla]

I was with my previous company 6 years plus, and was promised better training and courses etc. and ability to advance my skill set which never happened, they were also slow to look at the pay structure. I got on really well with them, but ultimately it was a job that I couldn't continue with as I wasn't getting the professional development that I needed, and was promised.
They eventually offered me more money after having a long frank discussion with the MD, but never followed up with the training so after 6 months of waiting another meeting took place where I said I'll stay if you pay me x% more, whereby x made me seem expensive, but I had to account for the lost time where I couldn't learn new skills so the money would offset that.
In the end I handed in my notice and they desperately tried to keep me, as I was a key figure for many of the clients they held, but I stuck to my guns and went out on my own and started doing contract work. Ironically they were forced to contract me back at a much higher day rate, and I paid for my own extended training with their money and my free time. Ultimately I am much happier and it was the right thing to do.

Be honest with them, tell them you have one life, and one chance to progress your skills and abilities and be happy doing something. Money will help but tell them you love being there and it's a really hard choice and one you make regretfully.

That's a great story. Sounds like it worked out extremely well for you!! I will be honest with them; it's not my style not to be. But I can't be honest with them yet as I don't want to be fired. When I can, I'll tell them how I feel.

Today's update: to compound my discomfort about leaving, they've just added two new members to this new team, both of whom are under my mentorship. Uncomfortable much!

 

[dirtychinchilla]

I asked my company for a pay rise once i got my professional qualification, fair enough? I thought ... they could charge me out at a much higher rate. Turned me down flat. I had sorted a new job out within the week, more senior role and 30% more pay. Best move I ever made

Hah, well done! I did actually get a pay rise when I got Prince2, which I never used.

 

[dirtychinchilla]

I have no doubt I was lucky, but importantly I didn't burn any bridges, as I focused on me and my life, and what was important to me as not just their employee but as a person.

If they think you are being unfair/out of sorts then they are not the family you thought they were.

Maybe they know you are a decent person and putting this sort of pressure on you will make you think twice, or more awkward for you to say you aren't happy.

That’s a good point, thank you. I’ve tried my hardest always not to burn bridges doesn’t serve anyone to do that and I’d hate to make this job the exception.

I imagine that whatever happens, I’ll feel uncomfortable. People only really leave that company in three ways: in the first month, redundancy, or suddenly and are put on gardening leave.

 

[dirtychinchilla]

On the basis of these two, quit and see what else is out there. Perhaps the new job will be amazing, it might be crap. Either way it will give you some more perspective on what things are like out there. Your history is 8 years in the same company, if you are so valued, they will take you back if a position opens up.

The fact they gave you a poor pay rise recently, well its difficult to say how your company has handled the past year, and everyone might be in the same boat.

The second paragraph, you said that they indicated you are a key player and only expert in the product, but contradicted that by saying you could easily be replaced.


I was in a similar situation a few years back. I was actually in the same job for almost 10 years, that I started as my first permanent job about 6 months after finishing University.

When I was new, the company seemed huge, and there was a lot of potential to progress. As I developed, I started to realise that I was becoming more expensive for the company as I progressed, less and less doors opened up. Not just because I was working my way up the company, but because the higher up you got, the less people moved about. At first I thought this was normal. I was told that I was one of their UK experts in my field, and played a key role in our European OPS Model Governance Forum, helping decide the future direction and controls for our area within EMEA. I actually found out that I had very little say, or control over changes and it was just a fad.

You are better to live your life and say you took some risks, rather than regret decisions you didnt make. Some will go better than others, but end of the day you will progress and develop as a result.

This. Good opinions from other people who have experiences so dont feel like your trapped - embrace your skills and time to move on.

Thanks guys. My indecision is the biggest problem here. I challenged the pay rise and I'm expecting them to return with something rather unsatisfactory. I opted out of the bonus scheme in favour of a regular, predictable, salary. My expectation is that they'll just add the average annual bonus on to the number they'd already offered me and think that's enough. It wouldn't be though - the place I'm hoping to move to will probably pay £5k over my current salary (in the region of 10% pay rise), plus bonus, plus car allowance, so that's going to be more like a £10k raise, although pushing me into the higher tax bracket.

I hate how they keep sucking me back in. I'll do the work I'm supposed to for now, but I can't say I have any enthusiasm for it.