Bilingual clap trap.

Trojan · 4 Oct 2007 at 08:19

doofer said:
Many children in Wales do not even know English until they go to school and learn it, the only time they'll ever speak English is in school lessons depending on where they live, so English is not really a first language in Wales.

Furton said:
Whoever said English is the first language of Wales then they need to read up on the law, both languages have equal parity in the country.

Wiki says otherwise:

English is spoken by almost all people in Southern Wales and is the de facto main language (see Welsh English). However, North wales still retains many largely populated places that speak only the Welsh language, or are learning English today as a second language. Wales is officially bilingual, with 21.7% of the population able to speak Welsh and a larger proportion having some knowledge of the Welsh language according to a 2004 language survey. Today there are very few truly monoglot Welsh speakers, other than small children, but individuals still exist who may be considered less than fluent in English and rarely speak it.

So only a 5th of the Welsh population can speak actually Welsh. Not what you'd call a normal characteristic for a first language really.

Tom0 · 4 Oct 2007 at 09:26

Angilion said:
If that's the case, then the best thing for England to do is learn to treat every single Welsh, Scottish and Irish person as an enemy of England and act accordingly towards them. If they're all acting from a particular idea of the past (probably based on Braveheart), they all see "the English" as the enemy.

I don't think it's that bad. There are plenty of people in those countries who aren't particularly prejudiced against English people.

Time to split and plant spies to see how hostile the other countries become towards England. It would be easy to (continue to) blame England for any problems following independence and work up some hatred. Many a politician has gained power using that technique.

Then we can all lose our independence and become regions in the EU separately rather than together.

The monarchy might be a problem. Would England have to try to find a descendent from before 1607, when the King of Scotland inherited England?

What are you on about? how can you take what i said and say im prejudice against english people, what i said was obviously defending the point of our language.

Psyk · 4 Oct 2007 at 10:34

semi-pro waster said:
Whether it, Scotland, Wessex or any other place should be separate from England is a matter worthy of some consideration. This is by no means a guarantee that anywhere should be but I'd certainly be interested to hear any case and the reasoning behind it.

I don't think it's right to include Scotland in that. Unlike Wessex and Wales, Scotland has never been part of England.

meghatronic · 4 Oct 2007 at 10:40

Psyk said:
I don't think it's right to include Scotland in that. Unlike Wessex and Wales, Scotland has never been part of England.

????????????

Acts of Union 1707

Angilion said:
If that's the case, then the best thing for England to do is learn to treat every single Welsh, Scottish and Irish person as an enemy of England and act accordingly towards them. If they're all acting from a particular idea of the past (probably based on Braveheart), they all see "the English" as the enemy.

There is actually something called "The Braveheart Mentality"... where people think it's true and the English behaved like that, prima nocta is real.... etc....

Hixxy · 4 Oct 2007 at 10:54

doofer said:
Many children in Wales do not even know English until they go to school and learn it, the only time they'll ever speak English is in school lessons depending on where they live, so English is not really a first language in Wales.

LOL i stopped reading at this post.

atpbx · 4 Oct 2007 at 11:08

I lived in wales for 3 years, i never met anybody who spoke welsh, or indeed had spoken welsh outside of welsh lessons in school.
Even my Great Grandma who was born in the valleys couldnt speak more than the odd word of welsh.

a1ex2001 · 4 Oct 2007 at 12:15

Welshy said:
I'm glad to see there are a few proud Welsh people on the boards

It's not about being proud to being Welsh it's about wether or not it is sensible to be spending huge sums of money promoting the language or not. Welsh is on the rise but this is a result of legislation forcing it to be taught in schools along side increased nationalistic feelings. Is the Welsh language a better use of money than Wales's crumbling NHS infrastructure, I have already mentioned the lack of a dedicated Childerens Hospital and many more are under threat including the large Hospital in Abergavenny. Many areas of wales still need massive regeneration and investment following the decline of heavy industry etc. If you as a Welsh man truly believe that the money should be spent on the language and the totally inefficient Welsh Assembly then I feel sorry for you and your Principality.

bcjames · 4 Oct 2007 at 12:39

atpbx said:
I lived in wales for 3 years, i never met anybody who spoke welsh, or indeed had spoken welsh outside of welsh lessons in school.
Even my Great Grandma who was born in the valleys couldnt speak more than the odd word of welsh.

Where abouts did you live?

gambitt · 4 Oct 2007 at 12:41

Angilion said:
I like Llamas.

no problem mate.

atpbx · 4 Oct 2007 at 12:58

bcjames said:
Where abouts did you live?

Cardiff and it was very unpleasant.

Angilion · 4 Oct 2007 at 14:09

Morlan said:
Oh dear, that's exactly what England has been doing for the past 800 years. Seems like old habits live on.

In Braveheartland, perhaps. In reality, no. You're making a fool of yourself. Be sensible - there isn't even any attempt to enforce the borders at all! If your hyperbolic claim had any truth in it, they would be.

Angilion · 4 Oct 2007 at 14:10

gambitt said:
no problem mate.

There is a problem. The problem is you lying.

Do you even know why you're doing it?

DRZ · 4 Oct 2007 at 14:13

I once got lost in Wales and was arrested by a couple of Policemen, in Welsh!! Couldn't understand a damn word they were saying, and had to politely remind them to talk in English!

I don't think that nationalism is particularly constructive, we are all part of the same overall republic and so should behave accordingly.

"Hating" other countries in the Union is a bit daft IMO.

Angilion · 4 Oct 2007 at 14:13

Tom0 said:
What are you on about? how can you take what i said and say im prejudice against english people, what i said was obviously defending the point of our language.

The Welsh, Scottish, and Irish never forget the past, The English never learn from it.

That was the whole of your post. Unlike other people, I am not making something up and claiming you wrote it.

How is that "obviously defending the point of our language"?

Diesel · 4 Oct 2007 at 14:31

DRZ said:
we are all part of the same overall republic and so should behave accordingly.

We aren't part of any republic.

gambitt · 4 Oct 2007 at 14:34

Angilion said:
baaaaa

OK I'll stop now

Furton · 4 Oct 2007 at 15:45

Trojan said:
Wiki says otherwise:

So only a 5th of the Welsh population can speak actually Welsh. Not what you'd call a normal characteristic for a first language really.

Read my post again, I said by law, not by numbers, hence why papers must be in Welsh and English hence why Welsh and English are both first languages of the country. Granted more people speak English than Welsh but that doesn't stop it being a first language of the country. Go to India or China and see what's classed as the 1st language but no always the most spoken in every area.

Originally Posted by doofer View Post
Many children in Wales do not even know English until they go to school and learn it, the only time they'll ever speak English is in school lessons depending on where they live, so English is not really a first language in Wales.

Click to expand...

LOL i stopped reading at this post.

You find that amusing? Just shows how ignorant you are other countries doesn't it?

Hixxy · 4 Oct 2007 at 16:57

just so happens welsh is my first language, i found the post amusing because it's utter claptrap. every welsh speaking pre school child i know is bilingual.

doofer · 4 Oct 2007 at 18:12

Hixxy said:
just so happens welsh is my first language, i found the post amusing because it's utter claptrap. every welsh speaking pre school child i know is bilingual.

Your first language is Welsh, but you don't know anyone whose first language is Welsh.. :confused:

Wang Computer · 4 Oct 2007 at 18:14

If the Welsh want to speak their spitty old language, I say let them.

Quick question - how much more expensive is it to provide bilingual road signs/municipal buildings/government literature and the associated translation that these things require? Who foots the bill?