Bitcoin RIP

[dowie]

One use is the movement of money, international payments across borders always have high fees, from what I have read (could be fake?) its anywhere from 8-20%.

Sending money internationally depending on what crypto you use can cost a nominal fee. I’m sure I read 3,000,000 USD in XRP was sent for 0.70C - near enough instantly.

BTC fees are low and there are multiple other currencies with little to no fees...

That makes very little sense - how is it useful to say go from GBP to BTC to USD rather than simply going from GBP to USD... you certainly don't need to create a new currency to do that and you especially don't need to make that currency require some pointless "work" be done that also consumes a load of electricity.

Look at say TransferWise or Revolut if you want cheap FX transactions as a retail customer.

I thought the movement into crypto started because people where fed up of the bankers charging us for using our money how we wanted... the financial crisis in 2008 was the nail in the coffin...

What relevance does the financial crisis have here? Other than people getting angry at bankers (not because they're mad at transaction fees but because the taxpayer has had to bail out a load of banks) I'm really not sure what your point is there.

I would presume he means for illegitimate purposes. I can't think of a single legitimate use-case where a real physical currency such as GBP would stop you from making your day-to-day transactions.

Yup, it seems there might be some use in cases such as buying drugs as the previous poster mentioned, then again unless you're also going to take a haircut from making use of some laundering services then you're potentially going to have a permanent record that you've bought drugs, it could come back to bit you... whereas if you were to simply hand over physical cash to someone then no one would be any the wiser in years to come.

 

[Yaayuh!]

Seriously though about the only reason I can see for it legitimately is porn subscriptions. Other than that it's just paranoia in my opinion.

I think we're getting to the point now with the decline in confidence in bank's IT, how they act with investments and the proliferation of hackers, it certainly makes cryptocurrencies stand out a bit more.

There's a long way to go though, in the meantime it will continue to be developed and be an investment option.

 

[DarrenM343]

I do. Let me explain:

Because it's a currency.

Simples.

It's not a currency. You can hardly use it to buy anything, just trade it on exchanges where those exchange are of course making ££££. It's also too volatile for anyone to even want to use for payments.
It's a tool of speculation atm, pure and simple .

 

[Backslick]

I could ask one of the traders here to give you a more detailed thorough explanation but I will just point to the fact that most laugh when I ask. Hint: there's a reason why no major financial institutions go near it

Quite a few major financial institutions are trading the listed BTC futures now though... Of course, as you say, it's merely speculation on a commodity.

 

[dowie]

Quite a few major financial institutions are trading the listed BTC futures now though... Of course, as you say, it's merely speculation on a commodity.

Are you talking about providing clearing for or actually trading them themselves? Which institutions are you referring to?

 

[Caracus2k]

I do. Let me explain:

Because it's a currency.

Simples.

Its not a currency. The diminishing amount of retailers that accept bitcoins almost immediately convert them into an actual currency for good reason if they accept bitcoin as payment for stuff (you will note that the goods are sold in $/£'s etc and not Bitcoins for good reason)

currency
/ˈkʌr(ə)nsi/
noun
noun: currency; plural noun: currencies

1. 1.
   a system of money in general use in a particular country.
   "the dollar was a strong currency"
   synonyms: money, legal tender, medium of exchange, cash, banknotes, notes, paper money, coins, coinage; More
   bills;
   formalspecie
   "foreign currency"
2. 2.
   the fact or quality of being generally accepted or in use.

Bitcoin is not generally accepted as a means of payment and this is because it is far too volatile to used as anything other then a speculative instrument.

 

[aardvark]

I do. Let me explain:

Because it's a currency.

Simples.

no it really isn't

 

[ubersonic]

Will bitcoin produce 2 greatest bubbles in all human history? History suggests not.

Actually history suggests it 100% definitely will, as it's the second BTC bubble that's currently collapsing xD

 

[Backslick]

There's not. The only reason there is any vested interest in 'cryptocurrencies' is because of the Blockchain component and how they can leverage that against the current trading and clearing systems.

Source: Currently working for JPMorgan and Goldman Sachs on a Blockchain project (amongst other things)

There's not what?

 

[dowie]

There's not what?

He probably meant to type "they're not".

Anyway, you made the claim, why not just provide some details/clarification?

 

[200sols]

Goldman Sachs said they would have a trading desk, but then shelved the idea earlier in the year. Crypto is not mainstream, and until its regulated it wont be.

 

[Freddie1980]

Seeing all those mining rigs being thrown out is an eye opener, it does make me wonder just how much electricity has been used up trying to mine this staff and what the equivalent is in tonnes of coal.

 

[Backslick]

He probably meant to type "they're not".

Anyway, you made the claim, why not just provide some details/clarification?

I can't and won't try to gain credibility by namedropping (and ironically GS and JPM are probably two of the worst banks for tech innovation in my experience...) but I also have a vested interest in this area and there are plenty of professional financial institutions trading listed crypto products. In Europe, and the US to an extent but that's relaxing somewhat, it's obviously more difficult now for banks to trade on their own books, as I'm sure you're all more than aware, but that's not the case in other, shall we say, less regulated parts of the world. Then you have the prop firms that exist with the sole purpose of exploiting volatile markets.

Since we're talking about bitcoin here, the volumes on the CBOE and CME aren't going to set the world alight compared to the VIX and S&P futures but you can see for yourself (this information is public); someone's trading it. And this isn't your crinkleshoes spread betting either, trading these products on regulated exchanges requires financial backing. Even for someone without intimate knowledge of the people doing this it's not rocket science to figure out some of the firms behind these trades.

 

[MikeTheNative]

Seeing all those mining rigs being thrown out is an eye opener, it does make me wonder just how much electricity has been used up trying to mine this staff and what the equivalent is in tonnes of coal.

It's estimated that mining uses more electricity than Denmark! So quite a bit.

 

[Minusorange]

Even re: banks in a specific jurisdiction supposing you can’t open an account with say HSBC you can just open one with another bank.

Live outside your own little harmonious bubble and realise there's nearly 2billion people on this planet in poorer nations who don't/can't have a bank account

https://digitalempowers.com/2-billi...-still-dont-bank-account-number-falling-fast/

Opinion aside look at the likes of Alex Jones, Tommy Robinson, the website gab who have been discriminated and denied services by the likes of Paypal purely for their political stance

 

[touch]

Errr no. It's a commodity, not a currency.

They're not mutually exclusive. A commodity can be used as currency. The basis of most currencies is that they were literally a commodity being traded (coins made from precious metals).

 

[Backslick]

I can't name them. Whether anyone's ever heard of them or not is irrelevant, you're nit-picking.

I'm not talking about the technology, I'm talking about firms trading listed bitcoin products, which is what everyone seems to have taken offence at. These are USD settled products traded on regulated exchanges, why is it such a leap of faith for you to believe what I'm saying?

 

[nine_tails]

I’m not sure what you mean? Has someone stoppped you from using GBP? How do you “censor” a real currency?

Even re: banks in a specific jurisdiction supposing you can’t open an account with say HSBC you can just open one with another bank.

Personally no. Take example of Wikileaks, their entire donation via Paypal/VISA was taken down and they moved to accepting Bitcoin.While your average guy may not feel this necessary of being in a position of un-censorable ,this has direct impact on society as a whole when "gubment" and pals can use their power to silence organisations.

 

[StriderX]

Personally no. Take example of Wikileaks, their entire donation via Paypal/VISA was taken down and they moved to accepting Bitcoin.While your average guy may not feel this necessary of being in a position of un-censorable ,this has direct impact on society as a whole when "gubment" and pals can use their power to silence organisations.

Considering where the fingers of wikileaks went, i'm not even surprised. The fact is if you're going to be anti-establishment, don't expect the establishment to help you do so.

 

[Backslick]

The information supporting my view is literally public, go look at it.