[BleepingComputer] UK Passes the Most Extreme Surveillance Law in the History of Western Democracy

Downside of being with a large isp I guess :(. Although I thought it had a gag order on isps in there somewhere, so if Zen get told to do it, they can't say.

So what's the deal with court ruling anyway?

Once we leave the ECJ ruling means nothing, but up until we do, shouldn't it be in force and at least delay this nonsense?

Once we leave, does it drop back to the original UK ruling? High court rule no, got appealed then went to EU, so once we leave does the high court ruling stand instead?
 
SupraWez said:
It doesnt affect all ISP at present, there is blog post from Zen on the subject available here :-

https://blog.zen.co.uk/ip-bill-now/
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Jesus wept!

Politicians ignoring what technical experts have to say on the subject as well as being ignorant to the fact that A) this information WILL BE ABUSED, and B) A high profile hack or leak of said data WILL happen eventually.

It's ignorant and shows a lack of education and understanding on the subject to think otherwise. 2016 was the year of the hack.... and it's going to not just continue but get worse.

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Whats the status of this then? I thought the EU courts repealed it?

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Side note..... how does being out of the EU affect future laws such as this in the UK?

Are we going to be at the mercy of Theresa and her cronies?

Theresa's ideas.... :mad: She's the one that came up with this stuff under David Cameron.
 
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I'm working as part of a forensic research group and honestly, this has all the pitfalls of so many other failed attempts of forensic analysis.

Something that immediately comes to mind is the accuracy of DNA identification from the most trace amounts means you get cases like this (https://californiainnocenceproject.org/2013/06/how-an-innocent-mans-dna-was-found-at-a-crime-scene/) where they've locked someone up because he was in the ambulance before the victim.

This level of data collection blurs the lines so badly when you're unable to limit it to one person at the ISP level.

Say for example your mates porns habits are a little "risqué" but you let him connect to your WiFi. Say he opens his phone and it happens to be the last tab he opened but closes it immediately and carries on showing you the YouTube video you wanted to see.

Boom, hard evidence that you, the account owner, now watch ILLEGAL (other new bill) porn.

Children in the home? Fab, they learn about extremists and the dark web on the news. Have a wee google to find out what it is while you fire up your legitimate VPN to connect to work.

Boom, you searched about the dark web and then connected to a VPN.

It's easy to assume "innocent until proven guilty" but if "your" illegal porn browsing habits get leaked attached to your name (because thats literally how it will be recorded) will that effect your employability? I can't honestly say it would, but you cant honestly say it wouldn't.

Again, it might be straightforward to explain away your internet searches about extremism if you haven a productive and open relationship with your children while they're young, but for that to continue into adolescence without waivering is another matter.

This has disaster written all over it.
 
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RoyMi6 said:
I'm working as part of a forensic research group and honestly, this has all the pitfalls of so many other failed attempts of forensic analysis.

Something that immediately comes to mind is the accuracy of DNA identification from the most trace amounts means you get cases like this (https://californiainnocenceproject.org/2013/06/how-an-innocent-mans-dna-was-found-at-a-crime-scene/) where they've locked someone up because he was in the ambulance before the victim.

This level of data collection blurs the lines so badly when you're unable to limit it to one person at the ISP level.

Say for example your mates porns habits are a little "risqué" but you let him connect to your WiFi. Say he opens his phone and it happens to be the last tab he opened but closes it immediately and carries on showing you the YouTube video you wanted to see.

Boom, hard evidence that you, the account owner, now watch ILLEGAL (other new bill) porn.

Children in the home? Fab, they learn about extremists and the dark web on the news. Have a wee google to find out what it is while you fire up your legitimate VPN to connect to work.

Boom, you searched about the dark web and then connected to a VPN.

It's easy to assume "innocent until proven guilty" but if "your" illegal porn browsing habits get leaked attached to your name (because thats literally how it will be recorded) will that effect your employability? I can't honestly say it would, but you cant honestly say it wouldn't.

Again, it might be straightforward to explain away your internet searches about extremism if you haven a productive and open relationship with your children while they're young, but for that to continue into adolescence without waivering is another matter.

This has disaster written all over it.
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Fantastic reply,thanks for that.

British Values once again being defended then and clearly there is no risk at all of free speech and people's rights to express themselves openly and honestly being affected in any way at all.

Threads such as this one and replies like this one give me hope to keep plugging away anyway so thanks for that.

:)
 
It goes to show how cancerous to genuine human values such as trust and self expression this war on terror is.
 
I could write about this all day, but a couple of important points to consider is that:

1) Once this information is collected it will be released. As far as I'm aware the data isn't required to be encrypted and we're opening up our data to be stored by ISP, companies that have had no previous requirement to collect and store data securely.

2) How would your browsing habits change if literally everyone in your life could see every query you've made online? To say you do nothing "illegal" is fine, but did you ever search for someone on facebook of opposite gender? Why? Again, easy to explain away before the act ("Wife, I'm away to search for your hot friend on facebook because I want to show my mate that funny picture you showed me of her") but after the fact?

What if your genuinely innocent search coincided with an argument? What if it DIDN'T even coincide with an argument, but the date collected was inaccurate or wrong? What if your wife ends up dead and your facebook chat logs show you making a genuinely innocent joke about killing your wife ("Ha, seriously bro, I could literally kill her if she gets me to get her another biscuit! :D")

Oh, did you ever make a post online about how you hate people that say "literally" when they mean "figuratively"? Ever expect that to be used as evidence against you in a court of law? Fab.

Obviously it's hard to give concrete examples of how this could be abused as the only other place this happens in is China. Woop!

However, I'm not being sensationalist here, there are cases where chat logs have been used in courts (like email) and to hear a lawyer read it out, slang and all, is pretty amusing ("L O L what you gonna do bruv QUOTE OPEN BRACKET")... as an observer, but it sure as hell ain't from their point of view.
 
The State is authority and authority controls.

Electing people who lack the character to govern with maturity gets you here.
 
APM said:
It goes to show how cancerous to genuine human values such as trust and self expression this war on terror is.
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When I was studying Computer Science back in 2003 my first lecture in 'Internet Security' my professor at the time talked about the Internet Snooping Charter that the government was trying to put in place and had been working on for years already.

I don't think this has anything to do with war on terror. It's been a long time in the making.
 
The biggest problem for me, is that the government have a tendency to write relatively sensible legislation, then they **** it up by not following it, they then use the **** up as an excuse to gain more power and write more legislation, when in actual fact - if they'd have simply followed the basic rules they wrote in the first place, it would all be fine.

More laws, legislation and surveillance are not the answer for fighting terrorism, as demonstrated in France and Germany in the 2015 and 2016 terror attacks - some of the terrorists were already under surveillance and in one or two cases, had already been arrested and released - what the hell difference is collecting everyone's internet browsing history going to make.

It sums up the strange mood of our time, where governments make mistake after mistake after mistake, when the inevitable disaster occurs - it gets turned into more justification for the subjugation of everybody, in order to keep them safe.
 
kaktus said:
When I was studying Computer Science back in 2003 my first lecture in 'Internet Security' my professor at the time talked about the Internet Snooping Charter that the government was trying to put in place and had been working on for years already.

I don't think this has anything to do with war on terror. It's been a long time in the making.
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Scary that this is the ethos that underlies our government and security apparatus.
 
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opethdisciple said:
It's ignorant and shows a lack of education and understanding on the subject to think otherwise. 2016 was the year of the hack.... and it's going to not just continue but get worse.
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Some of it is ignorance, but I'm sure as hell with a lot of it they know exactly what they're doing.
 
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