Moron is a bit harsh mate
He's just trying his best to justify purchasing the most overpriced mid range card of a generation, thats all
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Borderlands 2 PhysX can be forced to run on the CPU
- Thread starter CAT-THE-FIFTH
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Moron is a bit harsh mate
He's just trying his best to justify purchasing the most overpriced mid range card of a generation, thats all
Fair enough, he can consider himself well bitten
Often best not to rise to the flamebait though 
7970 owners still had better performance than nvidia owners for months though. The months up until the 680 release
@ Rusty, if i buy a picasso i expect a picasso, not just the frame it was in.
You have said it repeatedly yourself, Physx on the CPU is slow and you can't max it.
I'm not handing any money to anyone in return for half a product, if i pay for it i expect the full product. and my friends are more versatile than just one game, most of them don't even want it, the few that do will be playing it on there own.
As it is i had might as well play it on a Game Console
But there is more to this than a cartoon game.
Open Source has the potential to revolutionise computing, OpenCL/GL is huge part in that machine, AMD have contributed a lot to it and continue to develop it at there own expense for the benefit of that and ourselves. Hell even Intel are getting involved with it despite the fact that it goes quite the way to making the need for a very expensive high end CPU obsolete.
Nvidia can also get involved, and they were up until recently, now it seems to have shunned it in favour of trying to push there own closed licence CUDA and Physx which locks you into their products.
It just seems like plain greedy, opportunistic profiteering.
some of you may say "well that's just good sense" and you are right. Some of you may have an infantile mind and think it's all very amusing. to you i have this.
It will fail, for it to succeed Nvidia need the big players to use CUDA and Physx instead of OpenCL, It's already not happening. Infact Nvidia biggest CUDA member (Adobe) have just droped it in faviour of OpenCL for there most popular product; Photoshop.
They are not the first and will not be the last, everything from some of the most popular Web-browsers to Video players to video converters / encoders are all using OpenCL right now.
Pretty soon Nvidia are going to come back cap in hand crying OpenCL is fully supported in there GPU's again while still lobbying / Paying game developers to use Physx instead of OpenCL.
The hardware enthusiasts market is dying, it needs the Open Source movement to inject some life back into it. to make it absolutely an uncompromised advantage to have ANY high end hardware to be productive and making it fun at the same time.
Add to that while also being free in term of software for the vast majority.
Nvidia playing silly little games like trying corner the market for themselves (Doomed to fail) is throwing a huge spanner in the works, as i said before even Intel are going along with it.
As you may have gathered i'm a fan of Open Source, i'm a fan of it continuing to be free and open to all, including Nvidia.
But there are times, when i read crap like this. It just makes me want AMD to exclude Nvidia from all their future development of it.
You have said it repeatedly yourself, Physx on the CPU is slow and you can't max it.
I'm not handing any money to anyone in return for half a product, if i pay for it i expect the full product. and my friends are more versatile than just one game, most of them don't even want it, the few that do will be playing it on there own.
As it is i had might as well play it on a Game Console
But there is more to this than a cartoon game.
Open Source has the potential to revolutionise computing, OpenCL/GL is huge part in that machine, AMD have contributed a lot to it and continue to develop it at there own expense for the benefit of that and ourselves. Hell even Intel are getting involved with it despite the fact that it goes quite the way to making the need for a very expensive high end CPU obsolete.
Nvidia can also get involved, and they were up until recently, now it seems to have shunned it in favour of trying to push there own closed licence CUDA and Physx which locks you into their products.
It just seems like plain greedy, opportunistic profiteering.
some of you may say "well that's just good sense" and you are right. Some of you may have an infantile mind and think it's all very amusing. to you i have this.
It will fail, for it to succeed Nvidia need the big players to use CUDA and Physx instead of OpenCL, It's already not happening. Infact Nvidia biggest CUDA member (Adobe) have just droped it in faviour of OpenCL for there most popular product; Photoshop.
They are not the first and will not be the last, everything from some of the most popular Web-browsers to Video players to video converters / encoders are all using OpenCL right now.
Pretty soon Nvidia are going to come back cap in hand crying OpenCL is fully supported in there GPU's again while still lobbying / Paying game developers to use Physx instead of OpenCL.
The hardware enthusiasts market is dying, it needs the Open Source movement to inject some life back into it. to make it absolutely an uncompromised advantage to have ANY high end hardware to be productive and making it fun at the same time.
Add to that while also being free in term of software for the vast majority.
Nvidia playing silly little games like trying corner the market for themselves (Doomed to fail) is throwing a huge spanner in the works, as i said before even Intel are going along with it.
As you may have gathered i'm a fan of Open Source, i'm a fan of it continuing to be free and open to all, including Nvidia.
But there are times, when i read crap like this. It just makes me want AMD to exclude Nvidia from all their future development of it.
7970 owners still had better performance than nvidia owners for months though. The months up until the 680 release
Fair play.
A massive game like BF3 though could have been a big selling point for AMD if they had better performance from the off and not months down the line. In defence of AMD now though, they have a better price per performance than Nvidia. I will be interested to see the next round of dealings from both sides and importantly 'prices'.
As much as I'd like an open standard like Open CL to succeed its a long long way from doing that and CUDA isn't anything like dead in the water as you'd suggest - in mainstream industry its far more widely adopted and Open CL has dropped off due to the better support CUDA has behind it from an industry perspective. nVidia simply aren't gonna come back cap in hand crying OpenCL in any reality any time soon.
On the gaming front I think we will see a general trend towards Open CL and/or directcompute but if you look at the game engines that many games are based on the latest incarnations of the Unreal Engine have a heavy PhysX functionality set and while currently limited to directcompute for stuff like lighting pre-calcuation is likely to have a CUDA interface also for this functionality for those with nVidia cards down the road. The latest engines from idsoftware also make use of CUDA where available for texture transcoding and in later versions may be using it for voxel type dataset transversal and AI routines.
mainstream industry? i never said anything about the mainstream industry.
Industry can pay through the nose for CUDA supported Apps all it likes.
I'm talking about the enthusiast market
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It's not half the product - it's the game minus some eye candy. You can add some rhetoric but the point stands.
There's a lot of whining on this forum from people who were all too quick to dismiss PhysX as terrible before this game and now it's the bees knees and Nvidia are evil for investing their own money to have it inserted in a game.
It's no different to tactics in other market sectors. I really don't see the problem. Whinging about is just a waste of time.
Sorry I just don't see the argument. You know you're not getting it when you buy an AMD card so why the post purchase whining at the other side??
But I know Nvidia are the bad guys
It's not half the product - it's the game minus some eye candy. You can add some rhetoric but the point stands.
There's a lot of whining on this forum from people who were all too quick to dismiss PhysX as terrible before this game and now it's the bees knees and Nvidia are evil for investing their own money to have it inserted in a game.
It's no different to tactics in other market sectors. I really don't see the problem. Whinging about is just a waste of time.
Sorry I just don't see the argument. You know you're not getting it when you buy an AMD card so why the post purchase whining at the other side??
But I know Nvidia are the bad guys
I am trying to have a grown up discussion with you here, but if you want to react to me then i will put it like this.
It's not whining, it's making a point, Physx gets dismissed because is right to be dismissed, i am getting it, i will get more of it and on AMD cards. it's just not labeled with a random name and marketed as something special and unique. Stating this to be untrue is an inconvenience to Nvidia and anyone who likes to think it as special, well tough. it's still a valid point, not whining.
React to you? 
I don't see many Nvidia users making points that's all hence to me it looks like whining about something which is ubiquitous in other market sectors as mentioned above. You give your product a USP and promote it. It's up to consumers to decide if it's worth anything over the competition when purchasing.
It doesn't make sense to me why it's a problem and I'm not going to change my mind.
I don't see many Nvidia users making points that's all hence to me it looks like whining about something which is ubiquitous in other market sectors as mentioned above. You give your product a USP and promote it. It's up to consumers to decide if it's worth anything over the competition when purchasing.
It doesn't make sense to me why it's a problem and I'm not going to change my mind
.React to you?
I don't see many Nvidia users making points that's all hence to me it looks like whining about something which is ubiquitous in other market sectors as mentioned above. You give your product a USP and promote it. It's up to consumers to decide if it's worth anything over the competition when purchasing.
It doesn't make sense to me why it's a problem and I'm not going to change my mind
I don't understand your response here.
Here's one, in this very thread.
The above statement is of course wrong given that it does work on Nvidia but because OpenCL on the 6## cards is so slow it's not much good.
I rightfully stated this system is available on both brands, is there a problem with that?
Odd think to say, is there someone trying to change your mind?
Err well it ain't available in Borderlands 2 off the GPU hence the whinging I suppose!!
I have to admit I'm getting a little bored by this now... you're obviously disgusted by the way this is implemented in Borderlands 2 (hence not buying the game) so why don't you make a 'Nvidia/PhysX moral judgement' thread or something and talk about it on there and let this thread progress for users wanting to discuss PhysX on the CPU or GPU?
Edit: I've chosen to ignore your comments above to keep this thread on topic...
Back on topic now... I played some tonight a little and I do like the effects although I feel I wouldn't miss them if they weren't there. They're more like a "that's cool" kind of thing which you get every now and again.
Performance does take a hit to 40's on max settings, max PhysX on 5760*1080 which is irritating as it bugs me lower than 50.
I have to admit I'm getting a little bored by this now... you're obviously disgusted by the way this is implemented in Borderlands 2 (hence not buying the game) so why don't you make a 'Nvidia/PhysX moral judgement' thread or something and talk about it on there and let this thread progress for users wanting to discuss PhysX on the CPU or GPU?
Edit: I've chosen to ignore your comments above to keep this thread on topic...
Back on topic now... I played some tonight a little and I do like the effects although I feel I wouldn't miss them if they weren't there. They're more like a "that's cool" kind of thing which you get every now and again.
Performance does take a hit to 40's on max settings, max PhysX on 5760*1080 which is irritating as it bugs me lower than 50.
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Err well it ain't available in Borderlands 2 off the GPU hence the whinging I suppose!!
I have to admit I'm getting a little bored by this now... you're obviously disgusted by the way this is implemented in Borderlands 2 (hence not buying the game) so why don't you make a 'Nvidia/PhysX moral judgement' thread or something and talk about it on there and let this thread progress for users wanting to discuss PhysX on the CPU or GPU?
Back on topic now... I played some tonight a little and I do like the effects although I feel I wouldn't miss them if they weren't there. They're more like a "that's cool" kind of thing which you get every now and again.
Performance does take a hit to 40's on max settings, max PhysX on 5760*1080 which is irritating as it bugs me lower than 50.
It's pretty clear it does not work very well from the CPU.
So the options are, use an old used £10 Nvidia GPU as a Physx slave.
Hope they change there mind and add an AMD OpenCL patch.
Or wait to see if there is a Hack coming.
I think people love to play the "I'm purposefully misunderstanding you" game when it comes to PhysX.
I don't think many people have actually slated "PhysX" for what it is (a hardware accelerated physics API). People are slating how it's implemented and how nVidia pay developers to use it.
People also don't like the way nVidia market it as NEEDING an nVidia graphics card to get any use out of it, which is of course not at all true, despite what they'd have you believe in that Borderlands 2 marketing video.
The main problem however is how nVidia like to do things at the expense of anyone else that isn't nVidia, or doesn't own nVidia stuff. I don't think AMD is some sort of White Knight or anything, but as has been said, they tend not to do stuff like that.
Maybe it's because they know nVidia annoy people with it, and not doing that sort of crap is some sort of "PR" gimmick from them, I don't know, but nVidia have been at this kind of stuff for years now, and a lot of companies can't stand working with them.
An observation I've made as well is that a fair amount of diehard nVidia fans are seemingly quite the Apple fans too, which doesn't wholely surprise me as they kinda seem to have the same or similar attitudes.
I don't think many people have actually slated "PhysX" for what it is (a hardware accelerated physics API). People are slating how it's implemented and how nVidia pay developers to use it.
People also don't like the way nVidia market it as NEEDING an nVidia graphics card to get any use out of it, which is of course not at all true, despite what they'd have you believe in that Borderlands 2 marketing video.
The main problem however is how nVidia like to do things at the expense of anyone else that isn't nVidia, or doesn't own nVidia stuff. I don't think AMD is some sort of White Knight or anything, but as has been said, they tend not to do stuff like that.
Maybe it's because they know nVidia annoy people with it, and not doing that sort of crap is some sort of "PR" gimmick from them, I don't know, but nVidia have been at this kind of stuff for years now, and a lot of companies can't stand working with them.
An observation I've made as well is that a fair amount of diehard nVidia fans are seemingly quite the Apple fans too, which doesn't wholely surprise me as they kinda seem to have the same or similar attitudes.
Apparently it's by design that it doesn't work too well on a CPU. There's some articles around the internet that go in to quite some detail explaining how basically, PhysX has been gimped to not fully utilise a multicore CPU to exaggerate the difference between it running on a CPU and on a GPU.
I posted a link on page 1 - does that mod mentioned in that review not work?
For obvious reasons I can't try it
What is that hack supposed to actually do? PhysX actually works in Borderlands 2, without an nVidia graphics card without editing anything, or at least has been working fine for me.
I posted a link on page 1 - does that mod mentioned in that review not work?
For obvious reasons I can't try it
I just had a look. http://www.techspot.com/review/577-borderlands-2-performance/page5.html
Interesting you should say that as with the Hack the 7970 achieves the same result as the GTX 680 with Physx set to high on both.
So.... it may already be sorted.
I don't see why an AMD user here can't say if it's right or not, i mean whats it to ocUK?
Edit- Scratch the last line, like why did i even say that? lol
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Move the processing from the CPU onto the GPU I think mate though not entirely sure.
Performance can drop considerably with it even on medium later on in the game with it on the CPU.
As it can be turned on via a config tweak (to the CPU) I'd be surprised if this mod didn't do anything else.
I just had a look. http://www.techspot.com/review/577-borderlands-2-performance/page5.html
Interesting you should say that as with the Hack the 7970 achieves the same result as the GTX 680 with Physx set to high on both.
So.... it may already be sorted.
I don't see why an AMD user here can't say if it's right or not, i mean whats it to ocUK?
Edit- Scratch the last line, like why did i even say that? lol
Careful with the results - there's been no proper analysis done as to whether it's the same effects and IQ. But yeah it would be good if it does work.
I don't understand the last line before the edit...
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I just had a look. http://www.techspot.com/review/577-borderlands-2-performance/page5.html
Interesting you should say that as with the Hack the 7970 achieves the same result as the GTX 680 with Physx set to high on both.
So.... it may already be sorted.
I don't see why an AMD user here can't say if it's right or not, i mean whats it to ocUK?
Edit- Scratch the last line, like why did i even say that? lol
Thats only some very limited testing without trying some of the areas with more complex effects - also while I've not checked with whats happening with borderlands usually forcing high effects on the CPU while it will work does not reproduce the full-range of effects when running on the CPU API compared to the GPU version.
AFAIK there is no way to run PhysX on AMD GPUs currently - forcing high will just force high physics to run on the CPU usually with extended features disabled i.e. fluid simulations will be less complex or disabled, particle levels will be capped at a lower level tho still higher than the normal CPU setting tho some of this can be configured by the developer if they've licensed the full physx engine.
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I've been playing it myself and for them most part the framerate actually seems to be pretty high, no tearing, stuttering or anything. I'm about 20 hours in now and I've got PhysX on medium. It does slow down noticeably at some points, but it's not so much that it effects the gameplay.