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The only difference between your processor and my friends is the +.2GHz clock. Do you run everything at max with HBAO on? Also, what resolution?
Gah.. Still unsure as to what to do.
Botteneck check
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The only difference between your processor and my friends is the +.2GHz clock. Do you run everything at max with HBAO on? Also, what resolution?
Gah.. Still unsure as to what to do.
Yes mate all at max 1920x1080 no stutter perfectly smooth...Sounds like graphics drivers to me.. ?
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+1 from me.
Its more than a "bit" better
Mikey has pointed you in the right direction, however this URL compares the 6970 against the 5850: http://www.anandtech.com/bench/Product/292?vs=295 The 6970 looks about 30% faster to me.
Imho if a game is a "console port" then it will benefit more from a multi-core CPU than a better graphics card, but thats just mho. Cheers
My bad!.. He has a 6870, NOT the 6970. My apologies..
I shall edit my OP.
But yeah, when he upgraded his GPU from an ATI 4670, he had the same lags and slowdowns as I did (while having the same tri-core). The CPU upgrade almost completely sorted it.
I don't want it almost completely sorted, though.
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He runs his at 1650x1080 and has the latest drivers apparently. He gets the drops more noticeably when HBAO is on.
Unless that .2GHz really does make the difference..? I dunno.
Soldato
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Get an cheap but decent after market cooler like a hyper 212 plus, that should help keep your chip cool and overclock a fair amount. Hopefully will keep the core unlock more stable.
For a gaming perspective, a 955BE will be enough, and it's a bargain compared to the 1090T.
BTW, I have a 1055T, and I have gamed at stock speed for quite a while (BFBC2), despite the low default clock speed.
In any case, try a 3rd party cooler and some overclocking, that'd be a lot cheaper. If it doesn't work, you can still keep the cooler, which you will need with a 955BE or x6 anyway, to make any kind of headway.
BTW, what's the motherboard? Hopefully not a nforce.
Oh, and I have a 5850. I also hope you don't play at insane settings with maxed AA (I use no AA to be sure). The 5850 is a good performer, but certainly not top of the line.
For a gaming perspective, a 955BE will be enough, and it's a bargain compared to the 1090T.
BTW, I have a 1055T, and I have gamed at stock speed for quite a while (BFBC2), despite the low default clock speed.
In any case, try a 3rd party cooler and some overclocking, that'd be a lot cheaper. If it doesn't work, you can still keep the cooler, which you will need with a 955BE or x6 anyway, to make any kind of headway.
BTW, what's the motherboard? Hopefully not a nforce.
Oh, and I have a 5850. I also hope you don't play at insane settings with maxed AA (I use no AA to be sure). The 5850 is a good performer, but certainly not top of the line.
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Basically what OR said. Get the Hyper 212 Plus, unlock your X3 and overclock it. That should be plenty enough CPU power.
The 5850 is perfectly fine as long as you don't try and max out AA or something. Make sure you're running the latest drivers and you'll be fine.
The 5850 is perfectly fine as long as you don't try and max out AA or something. Make sure you're running the latest drivers and you'll be fine.
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Is the Hyper 212 Plus a good cooler then? Are there any that are known to be better?
Would you, or anyone know how far I'd be able to get a Phenom 965 in terms of overclocking?
I don't fancy replacing the cooler on my tri. It's not a Black Edition, does this mean it's not designed for overclocking? Or would be bad for overclocking?
My motherboard is an Asrock M3A770DE. I did state this in my OP, by the way.
I do like to run games on max or the highest I possibly can, which is why I wish to crossfire.
On a different note, my friend overclocked his 965 to 3.8 and said that it improved it more. This has made me hesitant over a hex, as this would suggest that it's the clock that's the problem.
Why is this so difficult?
Aha, cheers fellas.
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Is the Hyper 212 Plus a good cooler then? Are there any that are known to be better?
Would you, or anyone know how far I'd be able to get a Phenom 965 in terms of overclocking?
I don't fancy replacing the cooler on my tri. It's not a Black Edition, does this mean it's not designed for overclocking? Or would be bad for overclocking?
My motherboard is an Asrock M3A770DE. I did state this in my OP, by the way.
I do like to run games on max or the highest I possibly can, which is why I wish to crossfire.
On a different note, my friend overclocked his 965 to 3.8 and said that it improved it more. This has made me hesitant over a hex, as this would suggest that it's the clock that's the problem.
Why is this so difficult?
Aha, cheers fellas.
Answers to your questions...
Phenom II 965 should overclock to 3.8Ghz - 4Ghz on average assuming it's a C3 CPU, and not a C2. (Although I'm unsure if they even made Phenom II 965 C2 versions).
Just because a CPU isn't a black edition doesn't mean it will clock badly. I have the same motherboard as you, and an Athlon II X4 630 which is 2.8Ghz stock. Currently I'm running it with unlocked L3 cache and @ 3.5Ghz with 1.4v Intel Burn test (20 passes) stable, and plays BF BC2 pretty nicely with my GTX 460.
Also having 3+ highly clocked cores is more important in BC2 than having 6 lower speed cores... Oh and if you want maximum frames, I would advise against crossfire on this board as although it should work it's not gonna be perfect and crossfire does have trouble with some games as it is anyway. You would be better off selling your current card and buying a single high end card like an Nvidia GTX 480, GTX 580, or an AMD 6950 (unlocked to 6970).
Oh and when unlocking your tri core, or overclocking it don't bother looking at core temps as they're wrong. Just look at the CPU temp, if you download Everest it will tell you this temp as 'CPU' so it's easy to locate. As long as it doesn't exceed 60 Celcius you should be fine. I was running my CPU @ 3.2Ghz with L3 unlocked on the stock cooler and it was running well within spec.
Soldato
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It is probably the best cooler for the price range (very cheap) and more expensive others a run for their money even at decent overclocks. It has a lower TDP limit than better coolers so struggles when the heat is on, but it's great for lower powered chips, not suitable for monsters like a i7 @ 4GHz and crazy voltages.
If you want to step it up, then you have the Titan Fenrir, the Akasa Venom, and the Scythe Ninja 3. However, they are massively big, could cause problems with your case or your motherboard components, and they are almost twice the price of the Hyper.
In any case, a custom cooler is miles better than any stock cooling for efficiency and noise (although AMDs aren't so bad iirc).
The 965 is pretty much a 955 with the multiplier crancked up a notch. It's not worth the money over the 955BE. You can basically get a 965 but manually overclocking a 955BE just a little.
The black edition, has an unlocked multiplier, easier to overclock. All AMD chips overclock, some better than other (meaning, same part, but just luck of the draw, which are called 'golden samples'
). It doesn't mean lesser components won't overclock as well, it just a bit harder. All this 'unlocking core' malarkey is a prime example. You can unlock disabled cores, which are parts of the CPU with a defect on the die, but sometimes the defect is not even there, which allows you to convert your CPU into a better one. It's roughly a 50/50. The categorising of the chip (955 / 965) is a bit more blurry, since many 955 clock to 4 GHz fine. Manufacturers are conservative with their specifications, it means the chip is guaranteed to work at specified clocks, but obviously you can go higher with adequate cooling.Missed that. It's a decent motherboard, and shouldn't cause problems.
You should adapt the graphics settings to your card really, because the other way round doesn't work. There's no point running eye candy that will bomb your framerate. Also, you can try disabling v-sync if you are running at low frame rates.
I'd agree to some extent. Note that the tri-core runs at over 3GHz, while my 1055T doesn't, and it runs everything fine, although not all cores are used.
There is no point looking at the frame rate counter and seeing an improvement of say, 10 or 20 frames, if you are already running at 40-60 fps. But if overclocking gets him there, then fair play.
What cooler does he have to run his 965? 3.8GHz is a nice number, must be a decent cooler or is he cooking his CPU?
Why is this so difficult?
Aha, cheers fellas.
If you want easy, buy a console
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Soldato
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BTW if you want it easy, get what your mate has, since he knows how to get there with your setup. I still recon a 955 will do the job just as well.
I think you'll find the main difference in FPS there is due to the X4 being clocked nearly 25% higher than the X6. At the same clock speed, you wouldn't find so much of a difference- the X6 might turn out a fraction of a frame faster, but that's about it.
Realistically though, you may as well buy a quad for gaming, as a hex is far more expensive and only marginally faster at the same clock, and quads tend to clock higher.
I'm finding hard that your cpu is bottlenecking tbh. I have set my 720BE to stock 2.8 speeds and still get perfectly smooth gameplay on BC2 with a 5770.
I have just built a Pc using a 555BE dual core with a 460GTX and that runs BC2 perfectly smooth at 1080p ??
I have just built a Pc using a 555BE dual core with a 460GTX and that runs BC2 perfectly smooth at 1080p ??
My x3 unlocks to an X4. In games I have noticed no difference from having it x3 or x4.. ? It clocks up to 3.6ghz as either a x3 and x4 and it makes a slight difference but nothing amazing or overly noticeable...
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I reckon you're right.
So are the 955 and 965 the same chip or something? Would I be able to achieve the same OC with both of those chips?
How come everybody is against crossfiring, anyway? I'm looking at benchmarks on the AnandTech website and all seems fine in terms of performance.
You're right here, I do always bump the settings down until I get a solid 60.
This actually isn't possible for me with BFBC2 though. If I run it with absolutely everything on low, my performance is practically the same.
The only difference I notice is when I create a lot of explosions/smoke. The lower the AA is when I do this, the less severe the drops in FPS are.
Otherwise, no matter what the settings, I cannot get a solid 60 fps when looking into the center of some maps (but obviously I get 60 when looking out/away from them). Depends on the map.
This is another odd story.. He originally bought a an Arctic Cooling Freezer 7 and found his OC to 3.8GHz was unstable. Kept bluescreening. He then reinstalled his stock cooler and put that OC back on and found that I ran stably. So, yeah.. He pretty much is cooking it. I believe he said the stress test (OCCT I think?) came out as 65C after an hour.
His dips with AA on max when there are explosions and smoke directly in front of him. With AA off (or 2x, I think), I believe he gets a solid framerate. I'm going to assume this is normal? No bottlenecking here? I can live with this, but I'm stumped at how some people are claiming they are getting perfectly smooth gameplay with lower spec hardware than mine.
Thank you for your assistance, by the way.
Soldato
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955 and 965 are the same chip, like the x3 445 and the x3 450 are the same chip.
Up to 3.8GHz? yes. The rest depends on the cooler mostly. The memory and motherboard should be fine.
BTW, what's your memory speed? You're not choking your memory and running it at reduced speed? CPU-Z will tell you that.
Micro-stutters, more heat into the case, more power consumption. Besides if your problem is being CPU-bound, it's not gonna do much good, although it will look prettier.
Duno, could be CPU I suppose (depends on what sort of terrain engine they use, most likely simple LOD heightmap).
Unless you get into under 25 fps under those conditions, I wouldn't worry too much about it to be honest. Again, if you do run into low 20 fps, you can disable v-sync which should smooth it out a little bit at low fps.
The stock cooler works and not the Freezer 7? That sounds a bit weird, although AMD stock coolers are pretty good usually (never tried mine though), if noisy. 65C is basically the thermal limit of the CPU, so he is cooking it. Intels go much higher (90c?).
His dips with AA on max when there are explosions and smoke directly in front of him. With AA off (or 2x, I think), I believe he gets a solid framerate. I'm going to assume this is normal? No bottlenecking here? I can live with this, but I'm stumped at how some people are claiming they are getting perfectly smooth gameplay with lower spec hardware than mine.
Thank you for your assistance, by the way.
The dips with full screen translucent particles is perfectly normal. This sort of situation (nearby explosion) will be killing frame rate, no matter the card, even high end. Although they are running at 100fps, loosing 10-20 fps wont do much.
People may have other expectations of perfectly smooth. For me perfectly smooth is over 30FPS, but occasional dips around 25FPS acceptable. I remember the old days of Quake 3 where nothing under 100 fps was acceptable. Although it was more of an excuse to turn off shadows, as it made the game much clearer .
If I can get that, I can live with it.
options here :
- turn off AA, reduce costly options (draw distance, shadows). For me, AA is completely pointless anyway, I never really appreciate the benefit of it, at least when I get my killing going.
- Get a cooler (again Hyper 212 plus, Titan Fenrir Evo at most), and some Arctic Silver 5 and overclock that bitch (3.6GHz, 3.8GHz, maybe eve 4GHz, do not exceed 60c stress-tested).
- If that is not satisfactory, get a 955BE, but that would be the extent of which I would throw money at the rig.
In any case :
- BFBC2 perfectly playable on my [email protected] + HD5850@(1920 x 1200). I run high settings, and no aa. I am not trying to hit 60 fps, but constant over 30 is good for me.
- A 1090T or 965BE wont give you an edge over a 955BE for gaming or overclocking to 3.8GHz.
- I wouldn't bother with crossfire for single display. A 5850 should be more than enough at 1080p. Works for me.
Or, if you have over a grand, upgrade everything to sandy and a GTX 580.
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The extra L3 cache from a Phenom II does make a difference to keeping the FPS solid in Bad Company 2, I remember when I reset my BIOS and forgot to unlock my CPU again. The thing that made me notice was the gameplay wasn't quite as smooth as normal. My CPU had gone back to a stock Athlon II X4 at 2.8Ghz, Where as it was running before at 3.4Ghz with 6MB L3 unlocked.
I think to get 60FPS as a minimum frame rate on Bad Company would require an original overclocked i5, i7 or even one of the newer Sandybridge i5 or i7 CPU's.
Soldato
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You may be able to unlock L3 on the tricore. Here's a discussion, probably more around the net.
Again, try a hyper 212+ with AS5 and overclock the x3. Try unlocking the cache (if available), and extra cores. YOu may need to reduce overclock to keep it stable, or it may hold with everything unlocked.
If you still not satisfied and nothing unlocks, get a 955BE and overclock with said cooler. The HD 5850 is good enough on its own, and if it's not, reduce eye candy. That would be the cheapest route to fix your problem. That's all I can say
Again, try a hyper 212+ with AS5 and overclock the x3. Try unlocking the cache (if available), and extra cores. YOu may need to reduce overclock to keep it stable, or it may hold with everything unlocked.
If you still not satisfied and nothing unlocks, get a 955BE and overclock with said cooler. The HD 5850 is good enough on its own, and if it's not, reduce eye candy. That would be the cheapest route to fix your problem. That's all I can say
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