Bought an old BMW M3, filled with regret...

Another SMG owner here, trouble free on both the M3's I've had, probably jinxed myself now. I know a guy who fitted the rebuilt pump for £500 over a year ago, all is still well.

I'm a lover of SMG, it really suits the E46 M3, particular if they are a fun weekend / track car or race car. With the CSL updates it functions much better, yes it can be jerky and clunky at low speeds, but you soon get used to it and if the car and entire system is upto scratch its actually quite smooth. Everything in my M3 is new, clutch, bushes, differential and the car is an absolute blast to drive, for me on an E46 I'd take SMG every time over a manual.

I also really like how BMW let you control the shift logic separate from anything else in their SMG and DCT cars, I generally drive in S3/S4 mode day to day driving, if I want to launch the car I always do it in S3 as that allows a full throttle shift from 1st to 2nd without breaking the rear loose, S4 or higher just blows the tyres of on the gear changed. On track or a weekend blast I switch it upto S5/S6. Plus when the car is cold I just leave it in S3 auto until warm.

You could say it was SMG that converted me to paddles from manual I enjoy it that much and the same goes for DCT, PDK Sports Plus are all very enjoyable to drive when in maximum attack mode, though none of them compare to SMG in S6 at full chat, closest your getting to a sequential box on upshifts its so aggressive, though DCT emulates it quite nicely with a pretend kick in the back. :D
 
Yeah the logic settings give the car so much flexibility, miles ahead of the DSG style.

S1 is like a auto and S6 is brutal enough on M-DCT,. Nothing like the Vantage V12 S I drove, that was insane for how hard it kicked in, no idea how SMG is on the E46 but I imagine its like the Vantage and Aventador with the automated manual change.

Still trying to get time to get the M3 GTS DCT software update on mine.
 
Simon said:
Yeah the logic settings give the car so much flexibility, miles ahead of the DSG style.

S1 is like a auto and S6 is brutal enough on M-DCT,. Nothing like the Vantage V12 S I drove, that was insane for how hard it kicked in, no idea how SMG is on the E46 but I imagine its like the Vantage and Aventador with the automated manual change.

Still trying to get time to get the M3 GTS DCT software update on mine.
Click to expand...

When I went in Elliots GTS, the DCT was a whole lot more aggressive than his regular M3 DCT was, but was still very smooth at lower speeds, definitely a worthwhile modification.
 
Have to admit, every time I'm stuck in traffic, I do wish I had a paddle to just flick. The manual's clutch is too heavy for stop start traffic, but very rewarding on a nice open road. I'd still pick manual every time though and just put up with the slow driving shortfalls of a stick shift :o
 
Race mode? Even in full billy big balls settings it's still tame compared to the last of the single clutch gearboxes. Too tame IMO. SMG suits these cars better but of course isn't without its downsides.
 
Brutal clutch drops don't make it faster or more 'race mode' though do they, all it does it wrecks your transmission parts quicker. SMG shifts slow as hell even in the S6 setting, you could shift it quicker in a manual. DCT is lightning fast and seamless, the two can't even be compared.
 
It's the upshifts people are referring to, not downshifts. SMG in S5 and 6 gives a big whack when shifting up the gears. Makes experience all the better for it and one reason why many people like it. Just like how single clutch boxes on loads of supercars do the same thing. A dual clutch box takes away that particular character but in its place comes lightning quick shifts without the whack. Some prefer that, too.

Horses for courses.
 
Clarkey said:
Brutal clutch drops don't make it faster or more 'race mode' though do they, all it does it wrecks your transmission parts quicker. SMG shifts slow as hell even in the S6 setting, you could shift it quicker in a manual. DCT is lightning fast and seamless, the two can't even be compared.
Click to expand...
I didn't say SMG was technically brilliant, I said it suited the car.

These cars are about perception and are supposed to be some sort of 'event' to drive. Without a bit of visceral feedback from the transmission you may as well be driving a normal car.

DCT cars are dull.
 
A very weak argument for it tbh. I'll tell you what gives you good feedback from the transmission, operating the clutch and shifter yourself! As for driving a normal car, it's a 3 series..
 
mrk said:
It's the upshifts people are referring to, not downshifts. SMG in S5 and 6 gives a big whack when shifting up the gears. Makes experience all the better for it and one reason why many people like it. Just like how single clutch boxes on loads of supercars do the same thing. A dual clutch box takes away that particular character but in its place comes lightning quick shifts without the whack. Some prefer that, too.

Horses for courses.
Click to expand...

Have you (or Backslick) driven a M-DCT? or are you basing the comment above on a VW DSG box? They are in another league to DSG, mainly due to the logic settings on the buttons behind the stick.

S6 mode on M-DCT can only be used with traction control off because it will spin wheels between gear changes, it is instant and gives a good jolt through the car, its so quick that the inertia of the engine slowing actually gives a small additional increase in acceleration for a split second after a gearchange, its opposite to any other gearchange where power drops off.

A double clutch gearbox is a bad descriptor in my opinion, You basically have two gearboxes that are working together but you don't have the delay of changing between gears due to pre-selection of the (assumed) next gear.

I don't know people think brutal is good. It's only good for breaking traction and wont help acceleration. That V12S I drove at Milbrook went into 5th from at about 150mph and unsettled the car (Milbrook 1 mile straight).

We wont even get into reliability.
 
Clarkey said:
A very weak argument for it tbh. I'll tell you what gives you good feedback from the transmission, operating the clutch and shifter yourself! As for driving a normal car, it's a 3 series..
Click to expand...

I'm of the same viewpoint myself, but BMW's M-DCT is really really good. I had a manual gearbox in my E92 M3 and it was not particularly good. In fact BMW manual gearboxes are not really that good in general, but I'd take one over SMG. M-DCT however really upped the game. When you're in Sport Plus and S6 it's just mental.
 
S2000 factory box is considered one of the best ever made though, so it would be hard to beat :p

Simon said:
Have you (or Backslick) driven a M-DCT? or are you basing the comment above on a VW DSG box? They are in another league to DSG, mainly due to the logic settings on the buttons behind the stick.

S6 mode on M-DCT can only be used with traction control off because it will spin wheels between gear changes, it is instant and gives a good jolt through the car, its so quick that the inertia of the engine slowing actually gives a small additional increase in acceleration for a split second after a gearchange, its opposite to any other gearchange where power drops off.

A double clutch gearbox is a bad descriptor in my opinion, You basically have two gearboxes that are working together but you don't have the delay of changing between gears due to pre-selection of the (assumed) next gear.

I don't know people think brutal is good. It's only good for breaking traction and wont help acceleration. That V12S I drove at Milbrook went into 5th from at about 150mph and unsettled the car (Milbrook 1 mile straight).

We wont even get into reliability.
Click to expand...

Been driven in m-dct, but not driven. But I guess as a passenger the feel is different compared to being the driver. I like "brutal" on the older (E9x and below) cars. The induction noise as it whacks into gear is just brilliant, the two combined make for a very nice experience. The newer cars don't have either, they have seamless power and speed instead which is more appealing to some - If that makes sense. It's all preference anyway.
 
Last edited:
Simon said:
Have you (or Backslick) driven a M-DCT? or are you basing the comment above on a VW DSG box? They are in another league to DSG, mainly due to the logic settings on the buttons behind the stick.

S6 mode on M-DCT can only be used with traction control off because it will spin wheels between gear changes, it is instant and gives a good jolt through the car, its so quick that the inertia of the engine slowing actually gives a small additional increase in acceleration for a split second after a gearchange, its opposite to any other gearchange where power drops off.

A double clutch gearbox is a bad descriptor in my opinion, You basically have two gearboxes that are working together but you don't have the delay of changing between gears due to pre-selection of the (assumed) next gear.

I don't know people think brutal is good. It's only good for breaking traction and wont help acceleration. That V12S I drove at Milbrook went into 5th from at about 150mph and unsettled the car (Milbrook 1 mile straight).

We wont even get into reliability.
Click to expand...
That's your opinion. My opinion is that they're dull for the reasons I've stated.

And yes, I own a 'M' with a DCT box.
 
Clarkey said:
Brutal clutch drops don't make it faster or more 'race mode' though do they, all it does it wrecks your transmission parts quicker. SMG shifts slow as hell even in the S6 setting, you could shift it quicker in a manual. DCT is lightning fast and seamless, the two can't even be compared.
Click to expand...


SMG's don't ruin your transmission parts at all, infact even in S6 they are more friendly to the car as though it feels harsh and abrupt its a lot more friendly than the whole human trying to do the same just as quick and aggressive. My car reached just shy of 100k on factory fit clutch and flywheel, not only that it had done upteen trackdays by the previous owner and myself before it failed and the point of failure was the release bearing, clutch still had life in it, but whilst the box was off I replaced everything, clutch, flywheel, indent spring, fork, bearing, slave cylinder the whole lot as preventative maintenance all with OEM parts for the simple reason those parts lasted nearly 100k and upteen track days so they are clearly upto the job.

I do not know what SMG cars you have driven, because S6 is anything but slow as hell, if it is all working exactly as it should be then S6 shifts in 80ms, both my CSL and current M3 with CSL logic are quicker and smoother than I could shift. Were not all driving gods! ;)

SMG wins every race its quick but more important it is consistent which humans are not:




Even the bog standard SMG (none CSL) is on parr with a manual:



They are anything but slow as hell when everything is working as it should, the problem is now these cars are upto 15 years old and many of them are in need of overhauls and SMG with its million different sensors will adjust its shift logic, they also adapt to the driver as well. I've driven many an M3 in S6 and it felt it a bit slurry / slow, the reason was that most owners get in their car, turn of traction, select S6, even when driving around town not flat out, as such the shift logic adapts to the driving style even in S6 and as such slows down.

This is why I leave mine in S3 for regular driving, its silky smooth and changes gear as quick as I normally would for such driving, its also great for launching as won't break the tyres loose, S4 and higher breaks tyres loose on 1-2 gear change.

Plus the manuals in the BMW's are nothing to rave about, even the manual in my Mustang is better and its an MT82 Chinese built gearbox and the S2000 was in another league, the 911 was pretty good too, but the manuals in the E46 and E92 are nothing to write home about.

Having owned two SMG cars, I found them both superb and trouble free, though I do highly recommend the CSL logic, as the regular M3 logic seems to have a pause built in or that is simply how it feels, whereas the CSL feels seamless and the kick it gives actually makes it feels like it shifts quicker on changes and any manuals I've had a little fun with, you can clearly see the difference when changing gear, the SMG's S6 acceleration seems un-interrupted whereas the manual drops back a foot or two, of course the driver is the biggest factor in a manual and if the driver is a legend on gear changes or gives no damn about mechanical sympathy they can shift just as quick.

Also most people who drive an SMG, simply do not know how to drive one so from their quick 10 minute test drive come away thinking well it felt clunky, jerky and abrupt as you do change your driving style to adapt. Once you drive them as you should they are nothing but brilliant.

M-DCT is even better, its more seamless, it is far smoother at lower speeds and varying throttle loads and has a lovely if artificial kick in higher logic settings. But SMG is not slow as hell, unless of course you have it in S1 or S2!

For me personally I'd take an SMG or M-DCT over any manual, I personally find them more fun and let you concentrate more on the road and lines then having to worry about clutch/stick blah blah, but hey in my old age I fail at multi-tasking, plus I am not doing drifting which is the only reason I could see for a manual being better, clutch kicking and all that....
 
Engine mounts are the big issue really with the fast changes.

Maybe I'm talking in the sense of a daily drive car which mine is. For a weekend toy maybe something a bit more raw is what people want. But raw was what my s2000 was (when compared to the BMW stable)
 
Simon said:
Engine mounts are the big issue really with the fast changes.

Maybe I'm talking in the sense of a daily drive car which mine is. For a weekend toy maybe something a bit more raw is what people want. But raw was what my s2000 was (when compared to the BMW stable)
Click to expand...


Well admittedly when I did clutch/flywheel on mine part of my preventitive maintenance was gear box mounts, engine mounts, I changed pretty much everything, but in fairness on the E46 the parts are not particular expensive either and at nearly 100k, manual or SMG such parts would not be performing as they did when new, so to me it made sense to refresh all mounts and bushes throughout the car. But on the flip side it drives lovely, better than my CSL which says a lot. :)
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom