Brain question/idea

Threepwood · 13 Apr 2012 at 15:35

godinman said:
They're not scared of falling at all tho?

Google it, you will find these are the only 2 fears we are born with. The rest (typically) are learnt behaviors.

Remember we are talking about babies and not toddlers, how the brain changes from being born becomes a different matter entierly.

Jokester · 13 Apr 2012 at 15:43

Read up on neural networks and how they learn. It should explain how the brain learns how the world works through repeated experience of things.

edscdk · 13 Apr 2012 at 15:45

Rachmaninov said:
Assume that the brain is an incredibly complex machine. If the best mathematicians and physicists on earth tried to program a robot to be as agile as a cat, they would fail miserably.

they will only fail because you lack the technology to build the machines fast enough... and the robotics / materials to build the physical bit and also the programming know how....

if ww3 does not trash the world I can imagin in 200 years "super" robot soldiers in the battle field that humans cannot fight against.. able to dodge bullets and fire 1000 rounds into human sized target at 20 miles... or take down 20 men at 20 miles with 20 shots in 2 seconds...

ntg · 13 Apr 2012 at 15:53

lol..

try throwing a ball at a baby* and find out

/don't do that really!

Destination · 13 Apr 2012 at 16:07

misterPK said:
Why do we fall sir?

...because there is no spoon!

craarc · 13 Apr 2012 at 16:17

why be scared of falling ? its not falling that hurts its the sudden stop at the end

Efour · 13 Apr 2012 at 16:25

Jokester said:
Read up on neural networks and how they learn. It should explain how the brain learns how the world works through repeated experience of things.

I should have typed this and not my original post. I apologise. It just sounded like one of the conversations we would have around the bong at 3am at Uni.

http://www.indiana.edu/~rcapub/v27n1/rats.shtml

Its not particularly 100% relevant but its interesting to see how changing the environment of a a mammals gestation and birth can have such drastic effects.

Weird stuff.

Xordium · 13 Apr 2012 at 17:57

This one is not quite as simple as it may first appear and is far from stupid to ask and maybe only stupid when simply dismissed. The problem is that people make the assumption that - at birth = innate talent after birth = learned skill. This rather overlooks the fact that the brain and the sensory apparatus are developing well into life and part of that development is shaped by environmental factors. Therefore taking you ball example - then the ability to catch a ball is most likely an innate talent that any human would develop as a natural part of their growth. However, to catch a ball to suit the purposes of a sporting hobby etc would require the repetition of many failed attempts and rewarded successes. That natural growth will have some catching involved so really you can't differentiate and say it's either/or they are too joined together but you can safely say the physiological apparatus are there to perform it.

The brains interpretation of any flightpath would be negated at birth by the inabililty of the eye to actually send that information in the first place. To isolate catching a ball away from the whole development process is not really possible. Looking at your other example balance - that is an innate talent kind needed by all moving animals and even to some extent is demonstrated by plants (when they respond appropriately to gravity). But to get the kind of balance to perform ballet or iceskate say again is a learned skill again requiring the repetition of many failed attempts and rewarded successes and arguably not perfectable by all. But then you are exposed to gravity in utero so chicken and egg again. We have the apparatus to be programmed but it is a little more complicated than saying these things are learned.

Squark · 13 Apr 2012 at 18:07

My biggest gripe with 'No Ordinary Family' was when the kid becomes a mathematical savant just because he can calculate the arc trajectories/aerodynamics/forces and all the gubbinz be becomes a great American Rugby player.
But knowing the mathematics of a system doesn't mean that you are physically able to perform the feat of throwing a ball perfectly, that still comes down to practice, repetition and muscle memory.

You learn how objects will fall/travel through repeated observation and then based on those observations you 'naturally' make a prediction based on the conditions.

bitslice · 13 Apr 2012 at 18:39

Babies automatically hold their breath if you put them in water,
It's surprisingly difficult to drown the little buggers.

Xordium · 13 Apr 2012 at 18:43

bitslice said:
Babies automatically hold their breath if you put them in water,
It's surprisingly difficult to drown the little buggers.

Hardly shocking when they have been living totally surrounded by fluid for the preceding 9 months. There is a theory that reflex is possibly being stimulated in cot death.

bitslice · 13 Apr 2012 at 18:44

Good job I'm not shocked then

Xordium · 13 Apr 2012 at 18:47

bitslice said:
Good job I'm not shocked then

How many have you tried to drown so far just out of interest?

bitslice · 13 Apr 2012 at 19:05

If I said more than zero I'd probably get into trouble.

The washing machine experiment wasn't too successful either :/

ilcp · 13 Apr 2012 at 19:19

TheCenturion said:
Sort of. Through the process of catching balls, the brain will improve at knowing how to carry out this task, starting from the very first ball.

EDIT: I just remembered that even babies have some sort of mechanism built in to help them survive. I saw a program where a baby is put on a 'cliff' type surface, and when the baby reaches the end, somehow the baby knew not to go over the edge.

when i put my nephews on my lap sitting perpendicular to me; and push them back so they "fall" backwards, they only go as back as is "safe" for them, then they automatically move so they are upright. I then forcefully push them backwards but put had my hand to "catch" them. After few times of me doing this they are now comfortable with me pushing them back..

arctine · 14 Apr 2012 at 07:03

desires said:
The brain is you, you is the brain.

Oh right. How do you know that then?

CaptainRAVE · 14 Apr 2012 at 07:21

kgi said:
lol..

try throwing a ball at a baby* and find out

/don't do that really!

Lol, excellent. Thanks for the disclaimer too

Jokester · 14 Apr 2012 at 17:06

arctine said:
Oh right. How do you know that then?

What else is it going to be

arctine · 14 Apr 2012 at 17:07

Jokester said:
What else is it going to be

I have no idea, that's the point.

Jokester · 14 Apr 2012 at 17:15

arctine said:
I have no idea, that's the point.

Oh right, well yeah you're brain is what makes you, you.