Brake pads and fluid?

rG-tom said:
Afternoon all,

I'm after some high performance brake pads, i'm not bothered if they take a little heat to get up to decent performance but obviously don't want them to be a liability if someone pulls out on me from cold.

I am changing the calipers to the ones found on the e46 330i, which gives me 325mm instead of the stock 300mm discs, as I find the stock brakes woefully inadequate after a few hard stops. This is a very cheap mod to do if i am already changing pads and discs (£100 for a pair of remanufactured calipers) so every little helps :)

I am thinking of going with plain vented brembo discs, and EBC Bluestuff pads as they seem the ideal compromise between cold performance and warm performance, but I can't find them in the right fitment :\ There doesn't seem to be much choice at all for the e46 330i?

I don't really want to spend too much over £100 or so on the pads.

Also, what fluid should I go with?

Thanks,

Tom.
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Disc stick to stock original equipment blanks or brembo vented blanks, they will cope with anything and track days fine.

Don't use EBC, they are a budget pad!

On a budget: EBC Blue / Ferodo DS2500 (DS2500 are good but a bit wooden feeling)
Premium : Pagid RS29 / EBC Yellow (Yellow always felt good to me, but I found they did not last long for track use - Like 3-5 track days maximum)
Top Spec: Performance Friction 08 (PF08) compound (PF08 excellent feel, 20+ trackdays, downsides is noise/dust)

I run the PF08's, they have never faded once on me and I've done 5 track days on them now and so far the wear on the pads is less than 1mm. This pad and a decent blank disc combo should see 15-25 trackdays depending on how hard you are on the brakes.

If I had unlimited money, I'd be using Girodisc or Alcon disc along with PF08 pads! The feel is absolutely superb, incredible easy to modulate and such combinations are known for lasting 25+ track days. Porsche forum was once very Pagid RS29/RS19 focused, its also the manufacturer of the stock Porsche pads, but now many have switched to PF08 pads and not looked back.

One issue you will get with RS29 / PF08 is noise, unless you drive everywhere very hard on the brakes they do get noisy and certainly emit plenty of dust, but performance wise I've never used a better pad or a longer lasting one.

Fluid: Castrol SRF or Motul RBF600, both are superb and will never fade on you on track. :)
 
Yellows are good on my S2000. Hate the Reds as they are crap cold and it looks like someone has scoured the disks - no surprise a the pads last longer than the disks :S
 
RBF600

I dont think anyone here will get close to the limit on the road, its not really for mortals

lupo-oulton-8.jpg
 
rossk26 said:
There is only so far you can push your cars on public roads before you are getting dangerous to be honest. Even on a country road you can't push the car so hard that OEM brakes are insufficient? I've been on spirited drives before which have lasted >1hour and never thought I needed better pads.

This is only my opinion however, but I seriously think if you are pushing your car so hard on public roads, you probably need to address your driving style and determine if it is safe for public roads.
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I could quite easily get brake fade in the ST before I renewed the pads and fluid. Now I'm running Ford OEM all round with 5.1 it's a heck of a lot better. DOT4 will quite easily result in fade after not too long in the ST.

rossk26 said:
Fair enough then, you must have longer emptier country roads where you's live. Up here they are littered with tractors, cyclists, potholes, slow moving vehicles (car+bikes), blind junctions etc. Not many roads where I'm happy to fully open the ST to a point where the brakes will begin to fade...
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We must live in completely different regions then, there's plenty of amazing roads just 10-15 minutes from me!
 
Liquidfox said:
We must live in completely different regions then, there's plenty of amazing roads just 10-15 minutes from me!
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My weekend blast would usually consist of heading to kielder via ponteland, or the Hartside pass. There are the odd long stretch of road, but they tend to be military and if you have any kind of speed your going to get airborn! Lately I've aborted going for a blast simply because of the dire road conditions.

The best roads I have ever driven on were in the Peak District. Much wider country roads, quieter and smoother too.
 
DOT4 is allegedly lower boiling point. it could also be because the old fluid was a few years old.

The brake fluid ive just bought for the Golf is ATE DOT4 SL6 specific for ABS/ESP cars. i hope ive not made a mistake
 
rG-tom said:
Afternoon all,

I'm after some high performance brake pads, i'm not bothered if they take a little heat to get up to decent performance but obviously don't want them to be a liability if someone pulls out on me from cold.

I am changing the calipers to the ones found on the e46 330i, which gives me 325mm instead of the stock 300mm discs, as I find the stock brakes woefully inadequate after a few hard stops. This is a very cheap mod to do if i am already changing pads and discs (£100 for a pair of remanufactured calipers) so every little helps :)

I am thinking of going with plain vented brembo discs, and EBC Bluestuff pads as they seem the ideal compromise between cold performance and warm performance, but I can't find them in the right fitment :\ There doesn't seem to be much choice at all for the e46 330i?

I don't really want to spend too much over £100 or so on the pads.

Also, what fluid should I go with?

Thanks,

Tom.
Click to expand...


What does increasing the size of the fronts do to bias? What's the piston area after the upgrade? Does changing up a size open up more/better pad choices?

I'd start by putting on good quality plain disks, pads and fresh fluid (solid lines if you really want to) which would do wonders without the cost/complexity of upgrading other components, all IMO
 
Matt82 said:
DOT4 is allegedly lower boiling point. it could also be because the old fluid was a few years old.

The brake fluid ive just bought for the Golf is ATE DOT4 SL6 specific for ABS/ESP cars. i hope ive not made a mistake
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All the highest dry/wet boiling points I've seen is DOT4 fluid, they're not DOT5.1 because they don't meet the specs at low temps iirc?

He's talking about fade, which is to do with exceeding the pads ability to cope with heat. Exceeding fluid temps would create air which would result in a spongy pedal
 
Gibbo said:
Ferodo DS2500 (DS2500 are good but a bit wooden feeling)
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whilst gibbo has pretty much the most experience of anyone i know with the subject matter, the DS2500 having that feeling comes from them being poorly bedded in or not recently going through the bedding in procedure.

had EBC green on my ST and the OEM pads i replaced them with were better :p

i read on 'Hondas on Track' that they benefit from going through the bedding in process every once in a while. i do this every now and again and it seems to bring them back up to scratch. i tend to find that mine start to squeal at low speeds when they need a bedding in again. then the squealing goes away.

in honesty, mine feel like a normal OEM pad when on the road. fast road and track driving, the pads do really change and they become a lot more responsive.

never experienced fade on track either.

running Hel lines, RBF600 and DS2500 on OEM honda discs. its a brilliant setup for my car. tbh, i would take a look on the model specific forums to see if there is a 'go to' established set up.
 
Westyfield2 said:
I'd avoid EBC pads. DS2500 are meant to be pretty good :).
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nothing wrong with EBC pads, id probably rate redstuff slightly better than DS2500. Currently running DS2500 and while initial bite is good as well as cold braking the down sides are brake dust and noise. Redstuff made no noise virtually no dust (the dust was easier to wash off too), downsides was cold braking. They are about equal except for the price.


acemastr said:
Remind me of this bedding in process?
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i did a 50-100 "normal" miles on the brakes, then found a long, quiet country lane where i could do multiple 70-20mph, Hard on the brakes but try not to activate ABS, and do not stop either. The idea is to get some proper heat into them. After doing the 70-20mph stops let them cool off for a bit, then park up to allow them time to fully cool without the hand brake on.

A few days before a track day i will do "silly speeds" on a dead 3am motorway then brake down to like 30mph obviously making sure no one is following you.
 
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I know one thing.
EBC never again.

On my EG6 i had GREEN Stuff. It was nothing special tbh. Not for that Price

On my ITR i am at second set of RED Stuff They are OK. They EAT DISCs !!!!! I would say discs last me 2 sets of pads. So if u like braking hard and do track days Red Stuff will eat discs in 8k miles. One set of pads last me around 4000 miles more or less.

Aaaaa and i use Motul RBF600 fluid to :)
 
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Turns out I need new pads sooner than I thought. I can't be doing with spending a lot on them so it's between Yellowstuff or Mintex M1155. Opinions?
 
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