Brazilian Grand Prix 2010, Interlagos Circuit - Race 18/19
- Thread starter Glaucus
- Start date
Dude, you must stop being so emotional...you are doing your help absolutely no good whatsoever, by getting so wound up over a practise session.
First off, Vettel finished top of both sessions. Webber finished top in both sessions. As seen here:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula_one/results/8499357.stm
We will not discount the first session (I take all sessions into consideration). Vettel finished half a second faster than anyone in FP1. In FP2, he finished 0.1s clear of the rest of the field. Now, if the this was Spa, Bahrain or any other long track, 0.1s would be nothing. However, this is Brazil - a short track which means that even a 0.1s advantage is something to be pleased with.
With regards to Webber having the fastest "ultimate lap time". I laughed out loud with that comment. Even Button could set a fastest "ultimate lap time". How would he do this? There are many ways to achieve this. The easiest method is described below:
Optimise your car (setup) for sector1 of the track. Go out and drive slowly on the sectors of the track which your car is not set up optimally for, but blitz the sector of the track your car is optimised for. Come back to the pits. You then set your car up so it performs best on sector2 (but performs poorly on the other sectors). Set a lap time. You then do the same for sector3.
Hey presto, all your lap times will now be slower than your rivals, but your "ultimate lap" will be the fastest, by quite a margin.
The point is that ultimate lap counts for nothing. The only thing which matters is the time you are able to produce using the same setup/tyres, throughout a single lap. The other factor is the ability to string together 3 good sectors. It is no good producing 2 stunning sectors and then making huge errors in the last sector.
Vettel has shown beyond doubt that he is considerably faster than Webber this season. Vettel's problem is that his car keeps breaking down, while leading. This has allowed Webber to maintain a lead (over Vettel) in the WDC, which by rights, he should not have.
We have also seen beyond doubt, that RBR IS the fastest car this year. This trend has continued in the 2 sessions we have seen in Brazil. (RBR finished top 2 in both sessions...this is a fact and I'm not quite sure if you are trying to dispute this).
We have also seen that in FP2, the 2 Ferrari's were able to jump up the time sheet. Alonso, as per usually slotted into the 3rd spot, behind Webber. In the race, it is quite possible that we shall see Webber fall apart and go backwards (just like we saw in the last race). My belief is that we shall see this happen and in the race, Vettel (who is the fastest car/driver package currently in F1), is likely to stay ahead of Alonso (just like we saw in the last race).
I didn't think that I would have to write up such a long post, simply to justify my assessment, but unfortunately deko asked for this.
Furthermore, BBC's Andrew Benson and Sarah Holt also agree with my assessment, regarding RBR's dominance in Brazil.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula_one/9162873.stm
Had Horner had bigger balls, he would've handled Webber better (just like Ferrari handled Massa) and Vettel would've been leading the title race right now. Hell, even McLaren have started to compromise Button's race to give Hamilton preferential treatment. We saw evidence of this in the race before last, where they kept Button out on deteriorating (slower) tyres, just so he could hold up the RBR cars behind him, which in turn would allow Hamilton to catch them up. Their plan was foiled though when Hamilton started losing gears.
RBR's big problem right now is that they have the wrong driver in 2nd place (in the WDC). IMO, Webber simply isnt equipped to take on Alonso. Vettel, on the other hand, is. RBR recognise this.
It is evident that RBR's management desperately want Vettel to beat Webber (and everybody else). The problem for them is that they don't know how to make this happen without causing a public relations disaster. The last time they tried, Vettel ended up crashing into his team-mate and RBR employees were silenced (as witnessed by CSI Nut's disappearance). I guess they have agreed to simply let Webber and Vettel race it out, without any interference.
This is a very cruel statement. Imagine if Massa were to read these comments about him...it wouldn't be nice for him.
The simple truth is that he is up against the most complete driver currently racing in F1. In truth, unless you are Hamilton, it is unlikely that you are going to compare favourably with Alonso. Add this to the fact that Massa does seem to have lost a bit of his edge since the accident and becoming a father and you have a driver who is really looking bad.
It's rather amusing seeing the Alonso fans constantly make out that he's driving an absolute banger of a car compared to the Red Bulls.
Alonso has had two poles in the past five races hardly the sign of an uncompetitive car.
I very much doubt he uses this forum don't worry
I stand by what I said, granted he's had a rough time for sure but this is F1, a racing drivers peak. If you can't compete then why are you there.
I think Lotus, should be called Lotus.
Aaaah, but should Lotus be called Lotus or Lotus, and what should Lotus be called?
He had no edge before or after the accident. He was racing against a Kimi R who was completely cruising for money. His head was gone. That's not massas fault that his team mate was more interested in money and partying but the only edge massa ever had was a todt as a manager.
He never did a single thing of note except drive erratically until todt jnr became his manager and his dad got him a ferrari drive.
Massa got close to a title with a team mate enjoying life. Had a Hamilton or Alonso been in that ferrari Massa would have been destroyed.
Eddie Irvine almost won the title in the ferrari, never rated him either.
Massa hasn't lost anything, he just has a team mate whose fast and focused. I don't think I've seen anything as embarrasing as Massa having Alonso bolted to his rear wing despite having a gearbox problems.
Soldato
I see the Red Bull's throwing away another easy 1-2.
Associate
So you actually think the FP1 times are representative of pace over Qual and the Race? FP1 is very basic setup work, testing new parts, rubbering in the track, the times posted mean absolutely nothing. Zero.
What the hell are you even going on about here? This is just rambling nonsense.
Ultimate lap time is a valid comparison technique, it shows that both the RB cars are very very close to each other, and it also shows what lap time Webber is capable of. It obviously isn't a totally perfect comparison, but it shows the pace of the drivers well, and both drivers should hook up their 'ultimate lap' in Qual with no traffic, fresh soft tyres etc, they are the best drivers in the world after all.
I would disagree that Vettel is "considerably faster", in Qual Vettel is 10 - 7 up, and 9 - 7 in races. I would not say that this was 'considerably faster'. Faster yes, not considerably so.
Yes, without the failures in Melbourne and Korea Vettel would be leading the championship, however, if he didn't drive like a total idiot child in Turkey and Spa he would be leading the championship aswell, so the blame can't be placed squarely on the car.
We have also seen beyond doubt, that RBR IS the fastest car this year. This trend has continued in the 2 sessions we have seen in Brazil. (RBR finished top 2 in both sessions...this is a fact and I'm not quite sure if you are trying to dispute this).
We have also seen that in FP2, the 2 Ferrari's were able to jump up the time sheet. Alonso, as per usually slotted into the 3rd spot, behind Webber. In the race, it is quite possible that we shall see Webber fall apart and go backwards (just like we saw in the last race). My belief is that we shall see this happen and in the race, Vettel (who is the fastest car/driver package currently in F1), is likely to stay ahead of Alonso (just like we saw in the last race).
I didn't think that I would have to write up such a long post, simply to justify my assessment, but unfortunately deko asked for this.
Furthermore, BBC's Andrew Benson and Sarah Holt also agree with my assessment, regarding RBR's dominance in Brazil.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula_one/9162873.stm
At what point did Webber fall apart and fall back in the last race? He was pretty much on the pace of Vettel and was comfortably keeping Alonso at bay, he made a mistake that any other driver could have made, running very slightly wide in tricky conditions onto a surface with pretty much 0 grip. What part of that is "falling apart and going backwards"?
At no point have I said the RBR wasn't the fastest car. Yes, the RBR will be very dominant at Interlagos, it is a circuit which suits their car. The RBR is a sensational car, which I feel is carrying 2 very average drivers. Vettel is barely outpacing a teammate who has always been regarded as a good consistant driver, but not very quick. Not slow, just not WDC winning quick. I fully believe that the RBR car is flattering Vettel and Webber and making them look much better than they are, and that the RBR in the hands of a driver of the calibre of Alonso, Hamilton, even Räikkönen would have had a close to perfect season.
Soldato
RB got to be carful as i beleive that the last race vettles engine blew up because they were to agressive with engine map for qualifying ie blown difuser.
Man of Honour
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If Vettel wins the next two races, in which situations does he win the championship?
Soldato
let me see, if vettel wins both races, that'll put him on 256 points, with alonso on 231 at the moment, basically, he'd need to finish with a 3rd and a 4th, to win the championship on race wins, though both would have 5 wins, I think vettel may need webber to beat alonso on track
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Red Bull's Vettel & Webber dominate Brazil GP practice
Red Bull have established themselves as the team to beat at the Brazilian Grand Prix by dominating practice on Friday.
Highlights - Brazilian GP second practice
Watch highlights as Sebastian Vettel and Mark Webber lead the way in second free practice for the Brazilian Grand Prix at Interlagos.
Iplayer Formula 1 - 2010 - The Brazilian Grand Prix - Practice Two
Live coverage of the second practice session from the Brazilian Grand Prix. Sao Paulo's Interlagos circuit boasts the famous Senna S, one of the longest straights on the calendar.
i think redbulls mite implode this weekend, both drivers are going for the title even if webber is better positioned, i think they will take each other out on the track trying to show who really is going to be champ. theres no way vettel will help webber.
i also think alonso will maybe just wait for that to happen, he doesnt need to win the race so can just pootle around behind the redbulls.
i also think alonso will maybe just wait for that to happen, he doesnt need to win the race so can just pootle around behind the redbulls.
Soldato
FP3 feed just starting
looking dark and damp, still spitting with rain a bit
looking dark and damp, still spitting with rain a bit