Brexit thread - what happens next

[Gilly]

Clearly the latter.

We know that both sides outright lied in the referendum campaign. They did so because they knew they had complete impunity. Frankly, it's expected.

This is why I laugh when we rank high on anti-corruption measures. How is a political class that will lie to the electorate blatantly and routinely, anything other than corrupt?

Of course it's not OK. But what can you or I do about it? We aren't offered a choice between liers and honest politicians. They will all lie when it suits them. They will all break their manifestos and pledges as soon as they find it favourable.

None of them will ever deliver what they promise, so we keep voting in the other guys, who do exactly the same thing. What choice is that?

My thinking was thus; we are in a brave new world of politics now, for good or ill. A judicial review that holds liars and cheats (on both sides before I'm accused of attacking the Leave campaign again) to account may also have a positive impact on that element of politics.

If they know they can be called to account for lying or intentionally misleading voters perhaps that will be minimised in future.

I can't see it happening, but has there ever been a better time for it?

It would have to be. Otherwise they'd have to bypass parliament in order to Process,repeal,re-enact/re-affirm the vast swathes of ex-EU laws.

Lawyers will be happy though

Nate

It would have to be re-written, or it would have to be case law/precedent?

 

[Nate--IRL--]

The Leave campaign: providing work for thousands of unelected officials for at least 10 decades to come...

You can use all the ones that get sent home from Brussels.

It's like one of those schemes to help the unemployed

Nate

 

[estebanrey]

To those worried or excited about the possibility of the House Of Commons not passing the legislation and trotting out the "it's only advisory" line, riddle me this....

Why would any MP whose constituency area voted to leave try to block it? It would be career suicide. Now factor in there were twice as many areas that voted leave than remain and tell me how it gets blocked?

 

[Mauller]

I only said was as we've decided to leave the EU, meaning it will have the same or less power in future.

Are we agreed that you made a mistake in your response to my post showing a desire for a judicial review? We can move on then unless you'd have a problem with both sides being reviewed? If that's the case, what is the problem with it?

No problem with a judicial review as long as it is fair, but unfortunately in these things i can see the leave camp being hit harder than the remain camp, even when the remain camp made the claims i said, such as world war three etc.

The media is still demonising the leave camp and people who voted leave, so i don't see the review being equal and impartial.

Then there is also the matters of blatant lying from the remain camp which will no doubt be looked over such as the position of turkey negotiations. etc.

 

[Harlequin]

edit:

been corrected elsewhere

IF sturgeon can get 2/3rds of all mp`s to vote on a GE then under the fixed term act , we can have 1.

 

[the_r_sole]

And i think you need to read up what the Parliament act is.

You are going to be sadly disappointed when the reality hits.

 

[do_ron_ron]

Could you be any more patronising? I served 14 years in the Army, I don't need you telling me about NATO FFS. And NATO isn't an Army, it's simply a mutual defence organisation. Hardly the same thing.

The fact an opt out may exist doesn't mean the Government of the day would use it and it also doesn't preclude the creation of an EU armed forces via some other mechanism or underhand political scheme. For the second time today, I don't trust them.

I stated facts. Your previous work history is irrelevant. NATO is run by America as it is the biggest contributor. To try to say it is some club where everybody is equal is misleading.

The Govt. can change it's mind on anything at any time, that is politics and nothing new. Only a fool would expect a Govt. to stick by one position when external events demand a change for the good of the country.

 

[dowie]

I think it will take longer than the rest of this term for that to happen, if it does. The only hope that whoever finally does it can have of looking like a success is if the EU implodes before the next GE.

Doesn't have to, could just turn out that the doom and gloom scenarios don't materialise. EU doesn't have to implode either... but if we plod along as usual and show signs of things picking up whereas Southern Europe continues to have problems and the EU as a whole carries on growing at a sluggish pace then plenty of the leave camp will likely feel pretty vindicated

 

[Bonjour]

...



It would have to be re-written, or it would have to be case law/precedent?

Long video, but may answer some people's questions on the legal side..

 

[estebanrey]

To be honest I think I prefer the EU system, where the elected get to actually decide on things, rather than the UK system where the ultimate decision rests in the hands of the 'unelected elite' and all the elected officials can do is keep redrafting things until the unelected are happy with it.

But it doesn't, the HoC has the ultimate say. If HoL reject something they are just advising the government to take another look at it. It makes sense to follow that in 99% of cases but they can ultimately pass a bill the HoL refuses to rubber-stamp it.

MEPs can completely block legislation, but ultimately they are only looking at other people's ideas. The fact that the people you elect in Europe cannot officially propose legislation should be something you aren't happy with.

 

[platypus]

zzzzzzzzz

I don't understand why you have such a huge chip on your shoulder. After all aren't we in your magical new world now?

 

[Nate--IRL--]

It would have to be re-written, or it would have to be case law/precedent?

I'd say a lot of existing legislation could be amended to fit. But this requires active processing of current law. Over time case law/precedent will influence more and more, but it is very slow. Case law/precedent would take uhh precedence over any amended law I'd imagine.

The Interesting thing is the processing of existing law would likely have to bypass parliament, not sure how that would work constitutionally. As with most of the changes coming, nobody seems to have planned how it might be done..

Nate

 

[Gilly]

No problem with a judicial review as long as it is fair, but unfortunately in these things i can see the leave camp being hit harder than the remain camp, even when the remain camp made the claims i said, such as world war three etc.

The media is still demonising the leave camp and people who voted leave, so i don't see the review being equal and impartial.

Then there is also the matters of blatant lying from the remain camp which will no doubt be looked over such as the position of turkey negotiations. etc.

Oh, I fully agree that leave would be hit worse, because in my opinion they were much worse, but that doesn't mean it would necessarily be unfair.

Not sure why you think any blatant lying would be overlooked though, when that's exactly what they should be looking for.

 

[antijoke]

Sturgeon needs to **** off.

This is reaching comic levels of stupid now.

 

[Fuzz]

Indeed,

Remember that Heath admitted in his latter years that the long term plans of the EU were deliberately concealed on the grounds that had the British people known back in 1975 what voting to join the EEC really meant, We would have been unlikely to have gone for it.

Is it really any surprise that those of us who supported the idea back then no longer do so.

This reminded me of a 41 year old speech by Peter shore....

 

[dowie]

On the plus side... I can't wait to see Farage's next speech in the European Parliament... not that I'm a huge fan of his but it will likely be good to watch, it is really their own fault rather than UKIP's

 

[Demon]

So the 2008 crash wasn't a big thing in history?? As long as it's not as bad as 1985 - it's fine. OK.

I said go and look at the actual data and then compare to today.. in both cases you spectacularly are misrepresenting the current economic climate.

 

[Sankari]

You can use all the ones that get sent home from Brussels.

Can you give me a list of all the British unelected officials currently working in Brussels? I'll need first names, surnames, and job descriptions.

Thanks.

 

[Harlequin]

Read up on what the Parliaments act is, the house of lords has far less power than people think.

that's why the lords stopped the government over the welfare cuts.

until they made it financial.....

 

[thenewoc]

What we mustn't do is pour scorn on every negative aspect that comes out of the negotiations ahead as this shouldn't be a media circus who frankly wouldn't care either way as long as they had someone's head regularly on the chopping block. We don't want to talk ourselves into a recession and doom and gloom. Let's see what the end draft proposal for exit is that has to win EU approval and on balance what that means. There ought to be some positive things in that agreement too like for our fishing industry.