Bruce sacked

dannyjo22 said:
Exactly.



It takes more than he's been given to push for europe at this stage with the way other teams in the top 5 or 6 have spent or already had a base to work from. Yeah you can get lucky one year if a couple of top clubs have bad years but the top 5 places are sown up.

Everton did give moyes money on many occasions and he spent it badly, usually on forwards, I'm not sure he knows what they do :D We stuck with it and it saved us money in the long run. I'd like to see Bruces net spend in and out.

He raised expectations, they will bring someone in, waste some more money and end up getting relegated again in the next couple of years after having a list of strachans and fat sams.
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yet Moyes pushes for Europe, on less, and Sunderland have spent a LOT more than just what Bruce has spent since they've been in the league, and that's the point, overspending on crap and NOT getting NEAR Europe, I didn't say they expect Euro football, but expect to push. Sunderland were in a relegation fight for half the season last year, and a few lucky results at the end and a decent start while others were having poor starts led to them finishing a little above relegation. The quality of actual football they played last year frequently did deserve relegation and but for some woeful teams last year they could easily have gone down.

Sorry but they out spend on transfers and wages, most of those fighting in the bottom half so yes the expectation is safety should be easy and a lucky season should even have a shot of getting into Europe.

He didn't have a terrible past 10 months after raising expectations, he had a terrible last 10 months, full stop. Old sunderland who used to get lucky to get above 20 points, also didn't spend 100mil on players over 3-4 seasons, it might have been significantly more tbh. If a club who spends 10mil on transfers, and barely 25-30mil on wages has a lucky season and gets 10th, then does badly again, they are just getting back to where they were. This Sunderland came up with heavy investment to get back in the prem, heavier investment when they got in the prem, and heavier investment again when they changed managers. The expectation IS mid table safety minimum now.

But the main issue is, the squad they have there is FAR better than the results they are getting, Bruce has run out of idea's and can't seem to push his team to do better.
 
BaZ87 said:
How does that compare to previous Sunderland managers though? He's had a terrible past 10 months or so but that's because he began to raise expectations again at Sunderland.
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Is Avram Grant a better manager than Nigel Adkins because in 2008 he nearly won the league with Chelsea whilst Adkins got relegated with Scunthorpe?

No, of course he isn't. Bruce has done well at Sunderland because he's had tons more money than previous managers to spend. That doesn't mean he's been doing a good job respectively.
 
How much has he actually spent though? The sales of Bent and Henderson have brought in the best part of £40m alone and you couldn't predict what was going to happen with Gyan either.

Their form over the last 10 months has been relegation form but (with the greatest respect to Sunderland) had it not been for the relative success they had previously, it wouldn't have seemed as bad as it does now.

It's looking like he's done a terrible job in the summer but had it not been for Bruce, would have they had that money to waste to begin with. I'm not defending him, just bringing a bit of perspective.
 
BaZ87 said:
How does that compare to previous Sunderland managers though? He's had a terrible past 10 months or so but that's because he began to raise expectations again at Sunderland.
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Looking at the stats, he has the worst win percentage of any Sunderland manager who has lasted a full season since 1972. For example while he has less than 30%, the likes of Keane, McCarthy and Reid all have over 40%.

Slightly 'slanted' stats because the really bad managers don't get a full season in the job, and the three names I mentioned above had the benefit of managing in Div1 to boost up their stats, but he certainly hasn't covered himself in glory compared to past manager.

In terms of spending he spent a fair amount, over £20m every season, he also inherited quite a lot of expensive players. A few highlights below:

Campbell £3.5m
Cana £5m
Bent £10m
Cattermole £6m
Sessegnon £6m
Gyan £13m
Wickham £9m
Gardner £6m
O'Shea £4.5m

Bent and Henderson were basically just balancing the books.
 
HangTime said:
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As you've sort of pointed out, most of Sunderland's past managers were managing a Division 1 side not a Premier League side. Having a 40% win percentage in a lower division isn't the same as getting a 30% win percentage in the Premier League.

When you factor in what he's brought back in and the Gyan situation (which you can't account for), he's not had a great deal more than previous Sunderland mangers over the last 10 years or so (in real terms).

As I said, the last 10 months form has been terrible and he's made a mess of the transfer this summer but would they have been much better off without him? I'm not certain that they would have.
 
BaZ87 said:
AWhen you factor in what he's brought back in and the Gyan situation (which you can't account for), he's not had a great deal more than previous Sunderland mangers over the last 10 years or so (in real terms)..
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Exactly, they basically didn't want Bruce in the first place because he's a Geordie. It was never going to take much for the fans to get on his back.

MON and Hughes. How long before Martin does one when he doesn't get full transfer backing without selling and Hughes should be good for some draws. :D

Judging by the players he sold his net spend wasn't that bad at all. Few mid table teams can lose players like bent and not struggle to replace those goals.
 
Weebull said:
Is Avram Grant a better manager than Nigel Adkins because in 2008 he nearly won the league with Chelsea whilst Adkins got relegated with Scunthorpe?

No, of course he isn't. Bruce has done well at Sunderland because he's had tons more money than previous managers to spend. That doesn't mean he's been doing a good job respectively.
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I got worried reading that... For a minute I read it as praising Avram Grant :p (Adkins got Scunthorpe promoted and kept them up in a league they were not good enough for too ;))

I agree Bruce has had it a bit easy at Sunderland with a lot of cash to throw about and really has made a meal of it, being stuck with so few decent strikers at this point is laughable and his lack of motivation/planning all can see :(

Which is a shame as I like Bruce! Didn't think he'd be first for the chop
 
glad its over with...the record from the turn of the year is appalling...and glad we got in first as Coyles is roughly the same over the last 10 months at bolton so he cannot be far off the sack

at least this way we get to speak to the best candidates first!

as for money spent...he has effectivley balanced the books so its not a real criticism..he has spent a lot but got a lot back

he was a canny fella, just not good enough in the end though

I am hoping for Mark Huges, more determined,, can work within a budget

every fan of a club looking for a manager always says get oneill, but does he need to splash the cash? he may not get the backing he would require at sunderland.
 
Never going to achieve much. Just basically survive and hope for mid table. No great surprise when they find them selves there two point above drop zone.
 
Well the regional news up North reckon O'Neill will be announced tonight, he was a boyhood Sunderland fan apparently.

I'll believe it when I see it, but if it happens that would be a major coup for Sunderland.
 
The guys got some kajones on him though, i mean how do you go to the board and say, 'ive seen the future, imagine Wes Brown, John Oshea and Darron Gibson ALL playing for Sunderland!'... 'I just need 8 millions'

I mean he must have had the best sales pitch ever heard to convince them that this was a sensible move for the football club.
 
To be fair Bent and Gyan have been propping the team up in the league for a while, maybe Henderson and Mohamedi (SP?)

As soon as they left he was screwed, he wanted neither to go, but he should have been much stronger to Gyan (like Fergie) rather than let him leave without sufficient time to replace him.

But no he had his pride, and shipped him straight out. With Gyans goals they would have been safely mid table.

IMO of course
 
be nice to get it sorted out quickly...everything is still recoverable

window to come and we get in first choice manager before other clubs decide they need to fire their current manager.
 
Well by all accounts Bent wanted to go the previous summer, but gave Bruce a half season extra, and then was out the door, so Bruce had from early Summer to look for a replacement, and almost a year and a half later, he hasn't permanently replaced him.

Whatever people think, Bendtner is actually a very good striker, and has played well for Sunderland. Honestly when I watch sunderland its hard to determine exactly what isn't "clicking". Sesseggon(sp?) is like Theo Walcott, moves around, gets the ball and almost never chooses the right option, he is someone I would have dropped ages ago.

They have some good players there, but the team, the tactics, the style of football just don't work and as others linked to a good story, tactically he seems completely unaware. Winning or level in games against really quite poor teams, 2nd half other teams have pulled out performances and won the points while Sunderland don't change.

I think more than anything its probably opposition teams adapting to the way Sunderland play and getting stronger throughout a match and Bruce's teams seem to lack real creativity, they've got 1-2 ways to attack and they stick with it, when it stops working they keep trying it and get no where.

I really don't think its down to the squad, not entirely, its no Europa league winning squad, but its far from a relegation fight squad, its just the manager not getting any where near enough out of them.

O'neill should do well in that regards, but his buying is pretty "meh" to say the least and seems to throw a fit if the owner stops spending money on those bad buys.

Hughes, I can see why he left Fulham, and see why it was a kind of poor choice as well, I think he'd also get more out of the players, play better attacking football which would get the best out of some decent wide men and good strikers upfront, and he finds the odd great buy also.
 
Bet Whelan had a nice glass of wine when he heard the news, Sunderland paid Wigan to get him out of his contract

oh lawd
 
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