BT Infinity & FTTx Discussion

Something Else · 12 Dec 2012 at 16:31

had really poor internet speeds since yesterday now, im barely getting 1meg down and not even half up

it was a rock steady 40meg before wtf has happened?

StarmanUK · 12 Dec 2012 at 16:43

Some nice details to explain some of the process within this article - http://www.ispreview.co.uk/index.ph...t-fibre-optic-fttp-broadband-isp-service.html

parityboy · 12 Dec 2012 at 19:19

@StarmanUK

Many thanks for that, it's the best explanantion I've had so far.

Question: In the picture which depicts what is inside the house, the larger white box looks to perform a similar role to the VDSL2 modem we have today for FTTC.

However, what is the smaller box next to it? Is that for the voice service? I can't read the letters above it.

KIA · 12 Dec 2012 at 19:26

BT ONT: http://btbusiness.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/12972/~/optical-network-terminator-(ont)

The box to the right of the ONT is the battery backup unit.

StarmanUK · 12 Dec 2012 at 19:29

KIA is correct.

Because fibre requires local power to function unlike conventional telephone line they are mandated to provide a backup so you can still make 999 calls etc in a power outage.

parityboy · 12 Dec 2012 at 20:10

@KIA, @StarmanUK

Cool thanks for that. It looked like "BBU" but the letters were too small for me to be sure.

That FTTP stuff looked pretty simple to install in a premises, especially if they use the existing telegraph poles. I can understand charging £1,000 to dig up the road, but a £500 customer installation fee on top? Really, as opposed to £50-100 for FTTC?

Oddly enough, there's no mention of a huge installation fee for the Infinity 160Mb product, which I believe is all fibre. I think the market for bonded FTTC and/or dual-WAN routers just woke up...

EDIT:

So what exactly is the difference between FTTP and FTTP-on-Demand? Is it that one is available as a "custom order" in an FTTC-enabled area, and the other is direct from the exchange?

KIA · 12 Dec 2012 at 20:56

parityboy said:
Oddly enough, there's no mention of a huge installation fee for the Infinity 160Mb product, which I believe is all fibre. I think the market for bonded FTTC and/or dual-WAN routers just woke up...

The regular non-FoD FTTP BT Infinity 160Mb/s comes with free installation.

parityboy said:
So what exactly is the difference between FTTP and FTTP-on-Demand? Is it that one is available as a "custom order" in an FTTC-enabled area, and the other is direct from the exchange?

Pretty much. Regular FTTP already has the ducting and fibre equipment in the ground. It's usually just a case of blowing it a small distance to the customers premises.

parityboy · 12 Dec 2012 at 22:16

@KIA

So would it be reasonable to assume that regular FTTP services are targeted rather towards business parks, retail parks and trading estates etc, as opposed to residential areas? Would it be fair to say that the 160Mb product is the "first generation" of this service?

This would then leave FoD for smaller businesses which are situated nearer to residential areas. Having said that though, Infinity 160 looks very residential-oriented, especially the price...

KIA · 13 Dec 2012 at 09:53

parityboy said:
@KIA

So would it be reasonable to assume that regular FTTP services are targeted rather towards business parks, retail parks and trading estates etc, as opposed to residential areas? Would it be fair to say that the 160Mb product is the "first generation" of this service?

This would then leave FoD for smaller businesses which are situated nearer to residential areas. Having said that though, Infinity 160 looks very residential-oriented, especially the price...

No. BT Infinity 160Mb/s is only a little bit more expensive than FTTC (£9). Slower FTTP products exist & match the price of their FTTC counterparts.

FTTPoD, on the other hand, will probably be aimed at businesses, due to the high installation costs.

Dandle · 13 Dec 2012 at 10:19

parityboy said:
@KIA

So would it be reasonable to assume that regular FTTP services are targeted rather towards business parks, retail parks and trading estates etc, as opposed to residential areas? Would it be fair to say that the 160Mb product is the "first generation" of this service?

This would then leave FoD for smaller businesses which are situated nearer to residential areas. Having said that though, Infinity 160 looks very residential-oriented, especially the price...

My whole area is FTTP enabled for residents. The first generation product was only 100 meg with a copper phone line as well as fibre internet. Since the 160 meg product was released fibre phone lines have also been introduced and although badged as 160 most seem connected at 240+ meg. The next upgrade according to the by guy that fitted mine will be badged at 300meg.

Brummies · 13 Dec 2012 at 13:04

My Home Hub 3 arrived today, looks pretty smart.

4 days to go i'm counting down

.

parityboy · 13 Dec 2012 at 13:21

@KIA,@Dandle

OK, now I'm confused.

Going by what you've said, and what I've read, BT Wholesale have three "pure fibre" products and one hybrid.

FTTC is aimed primarily at residential areas with existing copper infrastructure, although businesses can have it too.

FTTP 160 is aimed primarily at residential areas already serviced by FTTC and is an upgrade, hence the cheap price. The fibre replaces the copper line going to the property. Businesses can get this too.

FTTP is a pure fibre product and availability is dependent on whether BT have laid the fibres already and enabled the exchange for FTTP.

FTTP on Demand is a pure fibre product and is installed separately from the existing phone system. It is dependent on FTTC being available. Fibre has to be blown from the aggregation node directly to the property, and perhaps the road has to be dug up also, hence the high installation costs. £500 so simply install the equipment in the building is a bit much though.

Is this right? I'm not trying to be dense, just trying to understand their business model.

Question: what determines if a BT exchange is FTTP, FTTC or both?

Rroff · 13 Dec 2012 at 15:56

AFAIK an exchange isn't FTTP or FTTC its either fiber enabled or not and then they will hook up whatever service to the backhaul thats being rolled out/people pay for.

KIA · 13 Dec 2012 at 16:42

parityboy said:
FTTP 160 is aimed primarily at residential areas already serviced by FTTC and is an upgrade, hence the cheap price. The fibre replaces the copper line going to the property. Businesses can get this too.

FTTP is a pure fibre product and availability is dependent on whether BT have laid the fibres already and enabled the exchange for FTTP.

FTTP isn't an upgrade from FTTC. People don't get to choose unless they're going from FTTC to FTTPoD.

boxst · 13 Dec 2012 at 17:24

parityboy said:
@KIA,@Dandle

OK, now I'm confused.

Going by what you've said, and what I've read, BT Wholesale have three "pure fibre" products and one hybrid.

Question: what determines if a BT exchange is FTTP, FTTC or both?

As you can see from that picture, the fibre has to be laid from the exchange to somewhere. That 'somewhere' can be to the cabinet or directly to your house (over simplification).

So an exchange is fibre enabled because it has the equipment to deal with the fibre that has been laid around the town irrespective of where that fibre terminates.

parityboy · 13 Dec 2012 at 18:04

@boxst

So when you see a list of fibre enabled exchanges and they are marked as "FTTC", "FTTP" or "FTTP,FTTC" what does that mean? Is it simply what BTO plan for that area?

@KIA

FTTP isn't an upgrade from FTTC. People don't get to choose unless they're going from FTTC to FTTPoD.

Ahhh, right. So say I'm 500M from my FTTC cabinet. Assuming the aggregation node is near to the cabinet, I would still have to pay £1000 for the FTTPoD service right? If so, how then (after watching the FTTP training video) can they offer Infinity 160 with free installation? Would it not require the same amount of installation work as FTTPoD, or perhaps not depending on local network topology?

boxst · 13 Dec 2012 at 18:17

parityboy said:
@boxst

So when you see a list of fibre enabled exchanges and they are marked as "FTTC", "FTTP" or "FTTP,FTTC" what does that mean? Is it simply what BTO plan for that area?

@KIA

Ahhh, right. So say I'm 500M from my FTTC cabinet. Assuming the aggregation node is near to the cabinet, I would still have to pay £1000 for the FTTPoD service right? If so, how then (after watching the FTTP training video) can they offer Infinity 160 with free installation? Would it not require the same amount of installation work as FTTPoD, or perhaps not depending on local network topology?

That is a very good question! My understanding is that the 160mb product was only in areas where they were testing to see if it actually works and as such were waiving the fees. Next year it'll be available to anyone who wishes to pay for the installation.

And the aggregation node could be closer or further away than the cabinet. In my case the cabinet is only 30 meters from my house, but the aggregation node is 300m-400m (I know because I asked when they were installing the cabinet).

Dandle · 13 Dec 2012 at 18:26

I believe FTTP fibre doesn't go to the cabinets it runs in a loop from the exchange through its nodes back to the exchange. Each new user is just connected to the nearest node then fibre is blown to their house. All this infrastructure is already in place apart from the pipe from the pole to the house, so that why it is free and there is a cost for on demand where they have to run totally new fibre.

The guy that did the final install of mine said the loop is already running at 500meg and its purely the modem in the house that decides what speed is available at the property.

parityboy · 13 Dec 2012 at 18:43

@Dandle

All this infrastructure is already in place apart from the pipe from the pole to the house, so that why it is free and there is a cost for on demand where they have to run totally new fibre.

Where I live, the nearest PCP and FTTC cabinet are up the road from my house (about 160M, and on the same side), and the telegraph pole is directly across the street from my house. However, I've no idea how things run underground, so I've no idea where the aggregation node is. They could either dig up the pavement on my side of the road and bring the fibre to the house that way, or simply blow the fibre to the telegraph pole and then replace the copper line with fibre and string it across the road to the house.

The latter option is NOT worth £1,000 and the £500 fee on top for installing the ONT is a joke.

The guy that did the final install of mine said the loop is already running at 500meg and its purely the modem in the house that decides what speed is available at the property.

So is it that the modem (ONT) is limited in hardware or in firmware? I can see firmware hacks on the horizon...

KIA · 13 Dec 2012 at 19:00

Dandle said:
All this infrastructure is already in place apart from the pipe from the pole to the house, so that why it is free and there is a cost for on demand where they have to run totally new fibre..

This.