Budget HTPC for living room (1080p/DTS-MA etc).

Thought I'll chime in and say I have an E350 and it handles BluRays, 720p MKV's and 1080p flash without issue along with recording tv with a duel tuner card. The case I used was a relative of the Antec Fusion, the Antec 2480. Same case just doesn't have the front LCD panel or volume control knob.

All fits perfectly with only one fan used for air flow and so far not had any issues with it :)

Thanks Silver. Can you confirm wether it will play Bluray ISOs at 1080p with full DTS MA or Dolby TrueHD via the HDMI connection please. In the thread posted by R088ieS86, it seems that there may be some issues at these high levels.

I can see now your limited for space here's an option

Antec ISK 310 - 150 Mini ITX Case - With 150W PSU £66
Biostar TH61 ITX SKT 1155 VGA DVI HDMI 8 Channel Audio ITX Motherboard £63
Intel Core i3-2100 3.10GHz (Sandybridge) Socket LGA1155 Processor - Retail £92
Kingston HyperX Blu 4GB (2x2GB) DDR3 PC3-12800C9 1600MHz Dual Channel Kit (KHX1600C9AD3B1K2/4G) [KHX1600C9AD3B1K2/4G] £32
OCZ Vertex 30GB 2.5" SATA-II Solid State Hard Drive (OCZSSD2-1VTX30G) £46

£300

Sounds good edGfaCTor. I have been looking at the i3 since reading the thread mentioned above. I have 4GB ram handy (either 1x4GB or 2x2GB) as I bought 12GB for my server running SBS2011 (i3 2500) and when I downgraded to WHS2011 found I could only use 8GB of it :(.

I can source the MB from the same place as the other parts so I can get for;

Case: US$80
MB: US$80
CPU: US$120
Ram: not needed
HDD:
Opt1: WD Scorpio blue 320GB US$50
Opt2: The Seagate® Momentus® XT 250 - US$90
Opt3: 50GB Vertex II - US$120 (30GB prob too small for Win7 & something like XBMC and assorted crap my wife will install like PPStream and various Facebook rubbish).

Total (exc delivery)
Option1: US$330
Option2: US$370 (really any speed adv. for this hybrid drive for a HTPC ?)
Option3: US$400 (Sanforce controllers seeming to have issues waking from sleep. Best non-Sanforce based SSD around 50GB ?).

Thanks
RB
 
Option 3: normal use for the hybrid drives are combining slight large capacitys with a small Solid state cache. So most common programs are save in the cache, so Win7 & XBMC in your case. But considering their prices you might as well get an SSD as you don't need the space

If you're considering option 4 i'd be looking at the Crucial M4.
Its based on the marvell controller and has seemed to be a lot more robust than the sandforce controllers. Its high specced around here.
 
Thanks R088ieS86,

I will probably go for the 2.5" hard disk for now and upgrade later if needed. Cost is a major factor at the moment but it is nice to know the options.

I am sort of tempted to get a second one for my sons pc as he is on an ageing dual core but put it in a bigger case with a video card. Again, another project for another day though.

So I will probably go for the i3 2100 and look to upgrade the hard disk to a Crucial M4 at a later date.

Any decent disk caching software out there so I could use extra ram as a disk cache if I have lots available, just a thought really ?

Thanks
RB
 
RB are you happy with that chipset over the Atom/Ion route? Given that those seem to use less power? I'm tempted to steal your build :p.

Mind you. Will 10/100 ethernet stream full 1080p? Because I can upgrade my server for less than £300.

Eg this bundle: http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=BU-188-OK&tool=3 would happily transcode the stuff I need in full 1080p, its just a case of whether or not my TVs ethernet card can cope with it.

Mind I'm being dense. I started to look at a HTPC because I want to run XBMC.
 
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RB are you happy with that chipset over the Atom/Ion route? Given that those seem to use less power? I'm tempted to steal your build :p.

After reading the thread posted here from the XMBC forums it would seem that there may be issues streaming full Bluray ISOs with full HD audio on the lower spec'd integrated cpu/mb setups. Having been caught out a few times recently buying stuff that is spec'd to perform to a set standard which only just reaches it on a good day with a favourable wind I would rather over spec than try to force it in. Like building a PC to the min specs of a fav game, it will work, sort of, but would be quite a bit better if you had chucked just a little more cash at it. By all accounts, an i3 should be able to handle all HD movie stuff and then some...

I am going on reviews and user feedback though as I have not bought yet :D.

Mind you. Will 10/100 ethernet stream full 1080p? Because I can upgrade my server for less than £300.

Short answer, for 2D full bluray on a network fairly empty of traffic with reasonable network equipment (NICs, routers etc) then you should have no problems.

Longer answer...

As taken from Wikipedia (Bluray).
BD Video movies have a maximum data transfer rate of 54 Mbit/s, a maximum AV bitrate of 48 Mbit/s (for both audio and video data), and a maximum video bit rate of 40 Mbit/s.

So, in an ideal world;
The max for the 2D Bluray spec, 54Mbps (6.75MB/s).
The max for the 100Mbit network is 100Mbps (12.5MB/s in control/error correction etc).

Now in reality the max for 2d Bluray stands but the max for 100Mbit is affected by a number of things;

  • Network cabling.
  • Efficiency of the network interfaces on both ends and on devices in between.
  • Hard drive speeds on the source.
  • Network traffic.
  • Specification of intermediate network components.
  • Any other actions the source or destination devices may be engaged in.

A fairly stably attained throughput on a 100Mbit connection should be around 85Mbps (10.625MB/s) payload data rate (ie. reported rate in windows after it strips all the error correction and control data out). So with a reasonable setup we are still well within the specs for Bluray.

3D Bluray ups the ante a bit through. 3D Bluray has a max video throughput of 64Mbps (Main TS @ 48Mbps & sub TS @ approx 24Mbps used for the second eyes image). You also need to add to this control data and audio data. Unfortunately the Bluray Rom white paper here doesn't specify, that I could find, the max total bandwidth required for 3D (audio, video and control/correction). Hopefully someone else can reference a reputable source for this info. It is also clear from the 2D specs that the max audio spec'd bandwidth plus the max 3D video spec'd bandwidth does not equal the max total spec'd bandwidth for 3D Bluray. I would personally err on the side of caution and go for Gbit network if possible for 3D.

Eg this bundle: http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=BU-188-OK&tool=3 would happily transcode the stuff I need in full 1080p, its just a case of whether or not my TVs ethernet card can cope with it.

For this I would first go back to basics. What do you want to achieve and what do you currently have ?. I would include thinking about things like future compatibility (TV/HTPC), storage space, ease of access for ripping movies (HTPC / Server), other things you may wish to do (internet browsing, streaming from internet sites like Spotify/GrooveShark/iPlayer, Torrents or NBZGet), Facebook (for the wife naturally), webcam (suggesting for contact with friends and family and not setting up a PayPerView service ;)), email. Remember people tend to 'grow' into solutions if they have the room so a HTPC with internet browsing may then be used to stream video or music and check email etc and you don't need to sit at a desk. Using XMBC you could also control a HTPC with an Android or Apple phone/pad. On the other hand, none of those things may interest you or your family (how much of your mobile phones functions do you use for example. I know I use very few).

The stuff linked to should perform pretty well on the server :D.

Mind I'm being dense. I started to look at a HTPC because I want to run XBMC.

Not so uncommon ;). I have bought a couple of movie players and both failed to meet my expectations (what they could stream, being able to run with moviesheets 'out of the box'). I would now prefer to not be locked in to one set of hardware and software and be at the mercy of the manufacturers dev team, this is why I am looking at the HTPC.

RB
 
I can source the MB from the same place as the other parts so I can get for;

Case: US$80
MB: US$80
CPU: US$120
Ram: not needed
HDD:
Opt1: WD Scorpio blue 320GB US$50
Opt2: The Seagate® Momentus® XT 250 - US$90
Opt3: 50GB Vertex II - US$120 (30GB prob too small for Win7 & something like XBMC and assorted crap my wife will install like PPStream and various Facebook rubbish).

Ok, think I will change the WD Scorpio Blue for a Black (+US$5 difference). At 320GB the black is faster, as quiet and less power hungry;

Approx price (click on model for WD spec sheets)
Scorpio Blue (320): US$50
Scorpio Blue (1TB): US$127 (WD10JPVT not the lower spec WD10TPVT). Note: no stock at internet supplier.
Scorpio Black (320): US$55
Scorpio Black (750): US$110
WD Green (2.5TB): US$115
Crucial M4 SSD (64): US$162

Internal transfer (read).
Scorpio Blue (320): 116MB/s
Scorpio Blue (1TB): 150MB/s
Scorpio Black (320): 147MB/s
Scorpio Black (750): 180MB/s
Green (2.5TB+): 123MB/s - Fastest for a WD green drive.
Crucial M4 SSD (64): 415MB/s

Power (read-write/idle/standby/sleep)
Scorpio Blue (320): (2.5W/0.8W/0.2W/0.2W)
Scorpio Blue (1TB): (1.4W/0.59W/0.18W/0.18W)
Scorpio Black (320): (1.75W/0.8W/0.2W/0.2W)
Scorpio Black (750): (1.75W/0.8W/0.2W/0.2W)
Green (2.5TB+): (6.5W/5.5W/0.8W/0.8W)
Crucial M4 SSD (64): (150mW/<65mW)

Acoustics (idle/seek) dBA
Scorpio Blue (320): (22/25)
Scorpio Blue (1TB): (22/25)
Scorpio Black (320): (22/25)
Scorpio Black (750): (28/28)
Green (2.5TB+): (24/25) - 29 seek in performance mode
Crucial M4 SSD (64): (Silent)

The reason for not considering the SSD is that I hope to upgrade my main PC from the VertexII 60GB SSD it has to a 128GB SSD of some type (just would not use the sleep mode) but cash is not available for a 128GB SSD at the moment as well as the cost of the HTPC.

RB
 
Does this not do everything you want already?

http://uk.asus.com/Eee/EeeBox_PC/EeeBox_PC_EB1501P/

Sure it doesn't play bluray off disk directly but with XMBC it should play iso's fine, plus it has a remote, usb3 x2 for your storage needs etc etc and comes ready to go straight out of the box.

An interesting idea but around US$500 (dep on config) as opposed to US$330 for an i3 system + cost of remote, mouse and keyboard. For size it could be a good move but for power to cost, not so much.

Anyone know of any decent reviews especially with network speeds and streaming Bluray ISOs. I have used a couple of media players that can handle streaming bluray ISOs and playing Bluray ISOs but not both together.

Thanks
RB
 
It may be a bit more but it has the os in there as well, and is incredibly small. I cant link you a decent review but im sure you can google one. A colleague of mine bought one of these over the weekend and tells me it is doing everything it should so far and performing admirably.
 
It may be a bit more but it has the os in there as well, and is incredibly small. I cant link you a decent review but im sure you can google one. A colleague of mine bought one of these over the weekend and tells me it is doing everything it should so far and performing admirably.

Sure, I hear ya. As you say, for a small package, it seems to be a good contender. For something a bit bigger with upgradability maybe something else.

Would you mind asking your friend how it copes with the items listed in the first post. I will have a hunt for reviews and post them up here when I find them.

Thanks
RB
 
I am that colleague :)
I'll try to answer the above regarding the eee box

[*]Runs Win7 (will be connecting to my WHS 2011 machines shared folders to get the media).

yes, Win7 comes installed on the eee box and I have mine connected to the rest of my LAN, which comprises of Vista 64 PCs. I am running XBMC and it can see all my shared network folders.

[*]HDMI connection to my Yamaha 667 AV amp

Mine is connected via HDMI to my Denon 2311.. no issues

[*]Able to stream HD audio (DD HD and DTS MA etc) over HDMI

AFAIK yes, but check the specs online to be sure.

[*]Video up to 1080p (1080i also supported)

as above

[*]Can handle 40+GB Bluray ISOs (pref with menus) pulled from a network share (Gbit network already in place)

I haven't tried a 40+ gig file, but streams +/-10gig files fine over a wired connection to my desktop

[*]Can handle some internet browsing.

Definitely. Its just a regular PC with regard to that, with a keyboard and mouse included in the pack (wired, not wireless in my case.. but I read thats an option)

[*]Will work with wireless keyboard, mouse and IR remote (already have remote and receiver from creative labs).

comes with a decent IR remote, mainly geared toward Windows Media centre, but works on XBMC, Nevermiss.tv etc


[*]Smallish case (Smaller than my amp, so sort of set top box, DVD player or xbox360 size would be great).

This is very small, quiet and doesnt create a lot of heat, even in an enclosed cabinet
 
Appreciate the feedback despite me hijacking your thread RB. So I'll carry on if you don't mind..:p.

I'm now thinking about this:

Crucial RealSSD M4 64GB 2.5" SATA 6Gb/s Solid State Hard Drive - £95.99
Intel Core i3-2100 3.10GHz (Sandybridge) Socket LGA1155 Processor - £89.99
MSI H67MA-E35 Intel H67 (Socket 1155) DDR3 Micro-ATX Motherboard - £59.99
Corsair XMS3 4GB (2x2GB) DDR3 - £26.99
Antec ISK 310 - 150 Mini ITX Case - w/150W PSU - £70
Total : £354.35​

My home network is all gigabit, over HP switches, though my router is D-Link (Virgin 50Mb).

One question I have is about sound/video outputs. My TV has 8(iirc) HDMI inputs. My amplifier does not have a digital/hdmi audio in, so how would I go about working this? In the long term for my home cinema setup I will probably upgrade to a digital amp, but for the time being I want to use my home hifi (Hardmon Kardon). And as such, how do I output the sound? Normal RCA cables?
 
Yup, you'll have a HDMI from port on the motherboard to the tv. Then you'll need an 3.5mm splitter coming from the audio out on the motherboard (green) going into your amp/hifi. (If I got that right)

I can stream 30GB mkvs across a wired network without a problem. Never tried ISOs. Need the HDD space! :D
 
I have a 7.1 sound card lying around, but the motherboard also has on board 7.1. Do I need to split the green because that does the "front"?
 
you'll need to split it because most amps don't have a single line in, and most sound cards don't have the white/red jacks out.

So you'll need to go from green to red/white. if that makes sense at all? (I'm not the best at explaining!)
Most onboard sounds is pretty good these days. What card do you have have?
 
Yep makes perfect sense. The card is an Audigy 2 SE 7.1, but my preference would be to use on board to keep space in side the case and not run yet something else that would add heat.
 
I am that colleague :)
I'll try to answer the above regarding the eee box

Thanks VM for that.

For y the 40GB ISOs and the HD Audio is what I really would need confirmation on if I was going to buy. Unfortunately I have been the victim of creative specs in the past so tend not to trust the too much any more.

I'm sure it will be of great use to others following the thread though.

RB
 
Appreciate the feedback despite me hijacking your thread RB. So I'll carry on if you don't mind..:p.

Np, more the merrier as long as it stays on the core subject (HTPCs) ;).

I'm now thinking about this:
Crucial RealSSD M4 64GB 2.5" SATA 6Gb/s Solid State Hard Drive - £95.99
Intel Core i3-2100 3.10GHz (Sandybridge) Socket LGA1155 Processor - £89.99
MSI H67MA-E35 Intel H67 (Socket 1155) DDR3 Micro-ATX Motherboard - £59.99
Corsair XMS3 4GB (2x2GB) DDR3 - £26.99
Antec ISK 310 - 150 Mini ITX Case - w/150W PSU - £70
Total : £354.35​

There may be a clash between the Micro-ATX board and Mini-ITX case unless the board size is a typo.

My home network is all gigabit, over HP switches, though my router is D-Link (Virgin 50Mb).

Should be fine for Bluray ISOs/KV etc as long as the server and the playing PC are also Gbit.

One question I have is about sound/video outputs. My TV has 8(iirc) HDMI inputs. My amplifier does not have a digital/hdmi audio in, so how would I go about working this? In the long term for my home cinema setup I will probably upgrade to a digital amp, but for the time being I want to use my home hifi (Hardmon Kardon). And as such, how do I output the sound? Normal RCA cables?

What is the model of the HK unit you have and your TV so I can lookup the specs ?. I think it really depends on how you want to set it up really.

If your TV has outputs for audio then you could go;
HTPC -> HDMI -> TV -> Amp. Advantage, can have sound without needing the amp on. Can easily change to HTPC -> HDMI -> AVR -> HDI -> TV with minimal fuss in the future.

if not then;
HTPC -> HDMI -> TV (Video only)
HTPC -> 3.5 jack-2 RCA -> Amp (sound only) - Problem may be that you would need the amp on for sound coming from the HTPC.

RB
 
Just to update.

Have finally got all the bits and put this unit together.

The Antec 310-150 case has about 2cm clearance in my unit under the TV but the fans blow sideways so ventilation should not be too much of an issue.

I am still looking for a slimline bluray player and 2.5" hard drive so I have put a 3.5" hdd in the space they would go as a temporary measure and it fits fine. I could get no picture from the HDMI output until I had installed Windows on and Windows must have sorted out some conflict as it now switches over to HDMI as soon as Windows starts to load. This means I cannot access the Bios via HDMI for the motherboard.

Now I am trying to sort out what software will best suit my needs and how to set it all up.

RB
 
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