Building survey missed obvious asbestos issue - any recourse?

Teknobry · 9 Dec 2015 at 13:15

had a couple of calls from the obudsman, they have all the info and pics. it's now a case of sit tight and await their decision. could be up to 6-8 weeks.

Teknobry · 8 Feb 2016 at 00:07

Awaiting ombudsman decision.

Teknobry · 11 Feb 2016 at 17:50

I'll post up more details and answer you guys later when i get home, but just to let you know i received a call earlier to say the ombudsman found in my favour and have offered 4k.

I'll post up the report they emailed when i get to my laptop.

Teknobry · 11 Feb 2016 at 22:50

Mark A said:
Sorry to go off topic, just have a quick question if you dont mind. How much did it cost to have it tested and which company did you use? I have a bad feeling the vinyl floor tiles in my kitchen are asbestos and a couple of them have started to break.

I phoned several companies, they all charged upwards of £90, I'd have to bring them the sample (price doubled at least if they came for it) and it would be anywhere from 3 days to 10 days for the results.
Turns out all these companies do is send it to an accredited lab who do the testing. You're effectively paying a middle man for absolutely nothing.

Here is how to find your nearest lab:
http://www.ukas.org/testing/singlesearch.asp

It cost me £30 for the lab to test the sample with a 4hr turnaround! They actually called me 2 hours later.

Tripod or Mr fantastic said:
What ombudsman? Did you go through the RICS?

https://www.ombudsman-services.org/

^these guys.

Teknobry · 11 Feb 2016 at 22:59

Here's a few paragraphs from the report I got sent from the ombudsman:

"

The main issue of your complaint is that after moving into your property you discovered that the internal garage roof was made from asbestos boards. You consider that ...(removed)... should have identified this within the Building Survey completed prior to your purchasing the property.

You purchased the property on 11 September 2015 after the completion of the Building Survey on 1 July 2015. It was only at this time that you identified that the garage ceiling was made up of boards containing asbestos. You consider that had this been identified within the Building Survey, you could have taken action to test this prior to completing the purchase of the property.

You have provided a copy of a certificate of bulk fibre analysis completed by Airborne Environmental Consultants Ltd. dated 25 September 2015. This states that it has tested a sample from within the garage insulation and found it to contain two forms of asbestos (Chrysotile and Amosite). We therefore accept that asbestos is present within the garage.

The Building Survey contained the following information in relation to the garage:

“ 5.01 Garage

There is an integral double garage (at basement level), with brick walls and a solid concrete floor. There us a double metal vehicle door at the front, which appears dated. There were no major defects apparent. There is electric power and light in the garage.”

..(name removed).. has responded to you to say that it is unable to test the materials during a visual inspection. It would therefore have no ability to confirm that there was asbestos present in the garage during its visual inspection. You dispute this saying that the asbestos boards are clearly visible on the ceiling in the garage. Both parties have provided photographs showing the garage ceiling. We can see that there is boarding to the ceiling. While asbestos can only be determined under laboratory conditions if it is suspected during an inspection this should be reported. Having looked at the photographs you have provided we are of the view the white/ grey ceiling should have alerted the surveyor to the fact that the ceiling may contain asbestos materials and this should have been highlighted within the report. The location of the ceiling boards should also have alerted the surveyor to the potential of asbestos. Asbestos was often used in garage ceilings due to its fire resistance qualities. We are of the view there has been a shortfall in reporting.

You have requested that ..(name removed).. covers the cost of removing the asbestos in addition to a refund of the fee paid for the survey. You have provided quotes of £3,495 plus VAT from Environmental Surveying & Remediation Ltd, £3,480 plus VAT from BLS Asbestos and £3560 plus VAT from AIB Solutions Ltd for the removal of the asbestos from the garage. There are also additional quotes for the cost of the removal and installation of the garage doors. The most competitive quote totalling £240 including VAT.

The established basis by the Courts for damages in cases like this is Diminution in Market Value (DMV). This is essentially the difference between what you did pay and what you would have paid, had you been aware of the omission complained about. This is influenced by several factors, including the type of defect, prevailing market conditions and any previous price negotiations. We have to have regard to DMV.

Asbestos in good condition can be left and its removal is not necessary. However, well publicised health issues surrounding asbestos means many people do not wish to share their homes with a potentially dangerous material and will therefore want it removed. You say you had asked the surveyor about the feasibility of knocking down the wall of the garage and extending it. It seems clear you had intentions of undertaking works to the garage meaning had you been made aware of the potential of asbestos it is likely you would have sought a reduction in the purchase price. Taking into account the costs incurred in removing the asbestos we consider a payment of £4000 to be reasonable.

I'm lost with this "Diminution in Market Value" thing. Surely they should cover the above costs I've highlighted?

Teknobry · 11 Feb 2016 at 23:23

It's a powered garage door, it will require removal whilst the work is taking place and then putting back on and setting up after it.
I have no where to store it and not sure how to set it up so needed a quote for a company to remove it, store it then re-fit.

I still think i should be refunded the survey fee

Teknobry · 11 Feb 2016 at 23:27

Slade2 said:
Are they more than covering your costs with the £4k they have offered? Basically the DMV is as stated in the letter it means exactly what it tells you. I.e if you would have know about the asbestos previously you would have asked for a discount from the price of the house to cover the removal since you didn`t know the DMV places you back into the position you would have been in if you did know.

I would put that down as a result to be honest and the fact that you mentioned you were looking to alter the garage should have given alarm bells to the surveyor who should have included that possibility in his report. You can get the 4 grand and get the work done now

Unless i can find a cheaper removal quote then the £4k will cover it, although I will have to have a think about what i'll replace the AIB with. The lounge is above the garage so will need some insulation.

Cheers for clearing up the DMV thing, I've actually been painting the garage floor all evening and the solvent fumes have made me light headed, lol

Teknobry · 12 Feb 2016 at 14:22

I was speaking to my neighbour about it, apparently he saw the guy arrive and considering it was a full building survey he didn't stay long at all. combine that with his copy and paste report that i got, easy 500quid for him! 4k won't break the bank. might stop him being so complacent in the future.

Teknobry · 14 Feb 2016 at 13:45

the_r_sole said:
Good result imo, be interesting to see what reaction there is from the surveyor, are ombudsman decisions legally binding or appeal-able?

I'm not entirely sure. According to the letter:

If you or (name removed) do not accept the decision, then either party can write to us, or email us at ****@os-property.org, but must be able to:

- show that there is a significant error in the facts which makes a material difference; or

- produce significant new evidence which may make a material difference, along with an explanation of why that information was not previously made available.

I've decided to go with their decision so will see what happens next.

Teknobry · 21 Apr 2016 at 12:36

so, the final chapter in this! the surveyor appealed the ombudsman's decision so the whole thing was looked into again. The outcome ended up exactly the same and the surveyor was given 28 days to pay. Those 28 days expired and i contacted the ombudsman again who gave him a further 7 days. a week later he hadn't paid. spoke to ombudsman again and they said the next step is they'll report him to RICS. the next day an email from the surveyor was waiting for me asking for bank details.
Money was transfered that day!

Teknobry · 21 Apr 2016 at 22:04

I provided quotes for all the work which came to £5k, I was awarded £4k so can't grumble too much. Better than nothing! Work hasn't been done yet, am waiting until summer.