Building survey missed obvious asbestos issue - any recourse?

Teknobry

Teknobry

Teknobry

Associate
Joined
1 May 2007
Posts
1,895
Location
Manchester. UK
**EDIT - Outcome on post 76**

Following on from my issue choosing an electrician - one chap came round yesterday and was looking at the fuse box in the garage. Soon as he walked in he looked at the ceiling and said 'is that asbestos? Looks like AIB to me.'

Not having had any dealings with AIB it hadn't even entered my head what the ceiling might be (isn't this what the surveyor is paid to comment on?) I checked the building report and no mention of it was made.
I've since took a sample to a lab and they have confirmed it is AIB and contains white and brown asbestos.
I purchased the house 2 weeks ago, the survey was done in July. The house is a bungalow which sits above the garage, below the kitchen and living room floor boards are these AIB's. :mad:

Pics:

92f6587a-e395-4348-b2f5-8f64f52117d3_zps4ftpasiz.jpg


55205366-357f-4397-ba8e-bd9c31e82c6d_zpsvnzi4d88.jpg


As you can see, it's not like it's hidden behind wallpaper or anything! The surveyor talked about the garage in his report as i asked him about it being feasible to knock through the wall to extend it all the way under the house. Plus the gas, water and electric meters are all in there so he spent a bit of time inside.
Ideally I'd like them to cover the cost of removal, seeing as this would have affected my decision buying it (or negotiated on the price).
 
Last edited:
i paid for a building survey (not the valuation or hom******s report, but supposedly the most thorough report).

i wouldn't have expected him to positively 100% ID it as asbestos, as it needs a sample taking to confirm it. however i would have expected a chartered surveyor, a so called expert to have recognised that it looks like AIB and recommended it be confirmed. Although i haven't yet had any quotes for removal its not going to be cheap, this most definitely would have affected the sale of the property. I'd have wanted it removed or the cost of doing so reflected in the purchase price.

yes they are RICS registered. I just wondered if anyone has any experience of pursuing a complaint like this.
 
yeah i'll be putting an email together today with pictures to send to them.
fastwunz, it's still a pretty major thing you'd expect to have been mentioned though don't you think? it'll be expensive to have that removed. it's a hazard because we need to rewire and fit new central heating which means disturbing it all. (both those things were mentioned in the report)
 
it is a very legit reason to knock money off a house that has an entire ceiling made of AIB. From reading up AIB is a pretty bad one for releasing fibres if disturbed and it's almost impossible to remove without doing so. removal cost will be 1,000's.
you're right about public buildings having it. They also have to have costly asbestos surveys done to monitor the risk.

The previous owner of the house was an elderly lady who passed away and had no relatives.
 
it was a building survey rather than a valuation/hom******s survey.
it needs to come out as i need to run wiring up there and want to put lights in, attach a pull up bar to the joists, add insulation etc.
i've emailed the surveyor, just waiting on a reply.
 
much appreciated. to be honest i will end up doing it myself if i get no joy from them. buy the vac, i can get suits/gloves/footwear/eye protection and disposal bags from work. Sheet the doorway, just need a respirator.
then get advice on how to do it properly, lol.
 
when it comes to your own home you can rip it down however you please, you just can't expose others to it. some council tips will take it, but need to be notified beforehand i think plus it needs double bagging.
I want it removing as i want to remove the existing lights and fit new ones, pull up bar putting in and was looking at a stairway/hatch into the house as well.
 
So after sending them an email sunday night outlining the issue with some pictures I got a pretty standard reply back

" I was not instructed to undertake an asbestos survey of the property. I did not undertake and asbestos survey. I am not qualified to undertake an asbestos survey.

2. As your email correctly states, “by sight it is not possible to 100% certify if a material contains asbestos”.

3. It is my understanding that this type of asbestos is considered safe (so long as it is not disturbed) and no action is usually necessary.

4. Section 8 of my Building Survey report contains a general warning about asbestos, advising that “some elements of construction contain asbestos”.

5. Most houses of this type and age will contain some asbestos and your property is not unusual in that it contains asbestos insulation board."


I expected as much but it's weak. He's not qualified for electrics yet he'll comment on them, he's not qualified on gas but he'll give his opinion etc etc. His argument about it's fine as long as it's not disturbed is pointless, it needs disturbing because I have work to do on the house which is stopping me.

Next stage is 'independent' surveyor looks into it, which I doubt will be independent but a chum of his, step after that is taking it to the RICS for arbitration. There is also a civil recovery option as well.

I will exhaust all options as I feel he is in the wrong on this.

Interesting thread here:
http://www.mumsnet.com/Talk/property/2163275-Surveyor-missed-asbestos-in-garage
Sadly the OP hasn't updated but others have talked about their experiences.

This one is similar although I believe I have a much stronger case:
http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5152066
Outcome - compensation paid to remove the asbestos.

I've just replied back arguing his points and told him that if we cannot come to an agreement then I want to escalate the complaints procedure.

Also seen their are solicitors who specialise in cases like this. This is something else I might look into.
 
BuffetSlayer said:
Did you instruct the surveyors of your planned project before hand?

Did you employ the surveyors yourself or were they working for the mortgage company?
Click to expand...

The surveyor was appointed independently of the mortgage valuation. I wanted a full building survey done on the house before I bought it. I gave instruction to the feasibility of knocking the wall down in the garage to extend under the full width of the house, to which he has commented on in his report.

maccapacca said:
Farley vs Skinner is the case law you should understand before you release the hounds. Was the scope of services explicit in an asbestos survey or identifying the possibility of a survey? If it was important to you you should have been specific.

Did you say you were intending to make alterations and wanted a survey to asses its suitability?

If the scope was to value the property they may well [in point 5] defend by saying the property is valued at no more or less than a similar property which could be easily proved.

The case went to high court and probably cost thousands to prove a point, the damages here would only be your financial loss, what is your financial loss?
Click to expand...

No, i did not explicitly instruct for an asbestos survey.
Yes, when commissioning his firm I asked for them to look into the possibility of making alterations to the garage, although did not explicitly state the ceiling (although ceiling would be altered as to take down that wall - a supporting wall - would need modifications to the ceiling in order to support the house above).
He wasn't asked to value the property (although he did anyway) as a separate valuation survey was carried out on behalf of the mortgage company.
My financial loss will be the cost of removing the AIB.
 
ubersonic said:
Also, I don't wanna add to your bad week, but the lighting in there looks like old T12 tubes? Global production ceased in 2012 due to energy regs and so stock is almost exhausted now meaning prices are silly.
Click to expand...

They probably are although i'm not to bothered as soon i'll just screw in some wall mounted lights as a temporary measure then take that old fitting down.

I'm going down the ombudsman route at the minute, i need some quotes off asbestos removal firms first to get an idea of the financial impact. once I've had my quotes i can submit my side of things and see what their outcome is.
 
It's about time they started being held accountable for the substandard surveys they do. They certainly charge enough to give a very vague opinion on most things.

Brookert, out of interest what would be an estimated cost to remove 36 square metres of AIB?
 
Despite sending pictures and giving dimensions no one would quote without coming out to look at the job first. Got a firm coming round friday morning to look at it and price up the cost of removal. Ideally I want 3 quotes to give with my report to the ombudsman.

Have been sidetracked though with trying to get the property ready as we have to move in on the 17th and still a lot to do!
 
Lude - Yes I did read it and I don't agree that throwing in a copy & paste disclaimer is good enough. As you can see from the pictures, it's not hidden, there is huge ceiling of it and I specifically asked about removing that wall in the garage to open it up under the whole house. If every tradesman I've had in has immediately queried 'is that ceiling asbestos?' Why hasn't a chartered surveyor queried it in his report?
His section in the report on the garage talks about the electrics in there, the water, the gas, the walls...he even mentions the electric garage door looking old....but not one mention of the ceiling.
I would have expected him to have recommended it be tested for asbestos and given estimated costs for removal (He did this for the boiler, the electrics etc etc it came to £30k worth of recommendations).

Maybe I am wrong and he doesn't have to mention this and his disclaimer gets him out of trouble, but I still feel conned paying him to survey the house and him missing something as obvious as that.

Buffetslayer - yes you're right that's exactly what's happening. Two firms coming out now, one tomorrow one on Monday. The one coming on monday said a ballpark figure would be £3.5k plus VAT, but will give a proper price when he assesses it.
 
after getting a couple of quotes i sent info off to the ombudsman. they have started looking into it and have requested more information. i've been slow to reply with still trying to do the house up. Will keep you updated with their replies once i've sent in the info they asked for :D
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom