Building survey missed obvious asbestos issue - any recourse?

Teknobry said:
No, i did not explicitly instruct for an asbestos survey.
Yes, when commissioning his firm I asked for them to look into the possibility of making alterations to the garage, although did not explicitly state the ceiling (although ceiling would be altered as to take down that wall - a supporting wall - would need modifications to the ceiling in order to support the house above).
He wasn't asked to value the property (although he did anyway) as a separate valuation survey was carried out on behalf of the mortgage company.
My financial loss will be the cost of removing the AIB.
Click to expand...

Okay so you have a reasonable case for their negligence. If you can write them a letter laying out where you asked them for the survey and quote the case above they should start talking too you.

However a Building Surveyor wouldn't really perform an asbestos survey, they may commission one and include it in their report but it's not within their remit to do anything other than say there might be asbestos present.

Sounds like you required a pre purchase asbestos survey of which you may not have been explicit in the terms, but as a lay man you would have expected a survey to at the very least recommend the survey based on your future refurbishment.
 
The_One said:
I'd leave it there and board over it :)
Click to expand...

This is actually a pretty good idea as it won't reduce your fire protection and it saves the hassle of removing it, can you not just put a suspended ceiling there and run pipes between the AIB/suspended, or do you need to run pipes through the AIB?

I had some work done in my kitchen the other week and had to remove the AIB before the workers arrived then put it back after they left so they didn't see it lmao.


Teknobry said:
Yes, when commissioning his firm I asked for them to look into the possibility of making alterations to the garage, although did not explicitly state the ceiling (although ceiling would be altered as to take down that wall - a supporting wall - would need modifications to the ceiling in order to support the house above).
Click to expand...

Not sure if this has occurred to you, but if your property has visible asbestos present then the chances of the not being more hidden are very high. If I were you I would have an asbestos survey performed so you have a clearer picture.
 
Last edited:
Interesting, like the op I would have thought it would have included at least something on it.

Can you get specific reports about asbestos before buying, or as stuff maybe hidden no it's pointless.
 
Also, I don't wanna add to your bad week, but the lighting in there looks like old T12 tubes? Global production ceased in 2012 due to energy regs and so stock is almost exhausted now meaning prices are silly.
 
ubersonic said:
Also, I don't wanna add to your bad week, but the lighting in there looks like old T12 tubes? Global production ceased in 2012 due to energy regs and so stock is almost exhausted now meaning prices are silly.
Click to expand...

They probably are although i'm not to bothered as soon i'll just screw in some wall mounted lights as a temporary measure then take that old fitting down.

I'm going down the ombudsman route at the minute, i need some quotes off asbestos removal firms first to get an idea of the financial impact. once I've had my quotes i can submit my side of things and see what their outcome is.
 
I'm an asbestos surveyor and analyst, and I would heavily advise against doing any works to this yourself. Its just not worth the risk, and you couldn't ensure the rest of the garage wasn't contaminated after doing it. It wouldn't just be a case of taking the boards off and bagging them, the whole garage would have to be thoroughly cleaned, the beams planed or wirebrushed, screw holes drilled out. Don't forget you would need a method of decontaminating yourselves. As somebody said earlier, a half mask would not have enough protection factor for the fibre release of snapping those boards.

Generally, the building surveyors who do housing don't have a clue about what is and isn't asbestos apart from the obvious products. My sister in laws survey completely missed the fact that a 1 tonne heavy breezeblock wall was unsupported on the first floor, and was warping the beams of the entire house.
 
It's about time they started being held accountable for the substandard surveys they do. They certainly charge enough to give a very vague opinion on most things.

Brookert, out of interest what would be an estimated cost to remove 36 square metres of AIB?
 
I couldn't give you an accurate figure, but expect thousands. 36sqm would probably be a few days work. On average we charge 350 to 500 just for air monitoring and the clearance. Get a range of prices in, you could ask the local housing authority who they would recommend.
 
Teknobry said:
It's about time they started being held accountable for the substandard surveys they do. They certainly charge enough to give a very vague opinion on most things.

Brookert, out of interest what would be an estimated cost to remove 36 square metres of AIB?
Click to expand...

For 36m2 I reckon it would be a 3 day job. A day to arrive on site, set up the decon, sheet up the area and sheet out anything not part of the strip etc. Then a day to strip it and clean the enclosure. Then a day for the analyst to do the visual and air monitoring and issue the COR.

I reckon you should be expecting to pay in the region of £2,500-£3,000, perhaps a bit more. Be wary of anyone offering to do that strip in less than 3 days.

Also be careful what contractors you use too. Not all contractors are equal and likewise the big hitters can also be terrible. For example, I would personally avoid Rhodar like the plague! :)

Glaucus said:
Can you get specific reports about asbestos before buying, or as stuff maybe hidden no it's pointless.
Click to expand...


Yes you can. Any surveying/asbestos consultancy company will do a Management survey on a property, however there is one issue and that is when done properly small amounts of cosmetic damage will be caused as surfaces, walls, transom panels etc have to be checked and this usually involves using a stanley knife or bradawl and the current occupier may not want to allow it.

If they are happy for one to be done, then a Management survey by a competent surveyor should find most asbestos that is used in a superficial way. That is to say materials that are easily accessible and visible such as walls, ceilings, floors, inside cupboards, within loft spaces and on the externals of the property and within outbuildings. However, loft access and high level external areas are often presumed to contain asbestos or listed as a no access area within the report as many surveyors only carry step ladders and do not have adequate provisions for more difficult to access areas (usually because of safety constraints). That said, you can always discuss with any given company what your needs are and they can tailor the amount of access they will make based on your requirements but usually at additional cost.

Finding hidden asbestos is also possible to a degree but requires a different standard of survey that is more intrusive and causes far more damage. This type of survey is typically reserved for project/refurbishment work and is called a demolition/refurbishment survey.

The other option is to just have bulk sampling done on any suspect materials that you note on your viewing (again with the permission of the current owner) but this option should only really be used for people who are clued up on asbestos use within buildings (Ie asbestos professionals).
 
Last edited:
Despite sending pictures and giving dimensions no one would quote without coming out to look at the job first. Got a firm coming round friday morning to look at it and price up the cost of removal. Ideally I want 3 quotes to give with my report to the ombudsman.

Have been sidetracked though with trying to get the property ready as we have to move in on the 17th and still a lot to do!
 
Teknobry said:
Despite sending pictures and giving dimensions no one would quote without coming out to look at the job first. Got a firm coming round friday morning to look at it and price up the cost of removal. Ideally I want 3 quotes to give with my report to the ombudsman.

Have been sidetracked though with trying to get the property ready as we have to move in on the 17th and still a lot to do!
Click to expand...

Yeah any company worth their salt will want to send out a contracts manager. It is part of what is called a "desktop study" which is something they are required to do under their HSE guidance document in order to generate an accurate risk assessment and plan of work/method statement. They can't give you a formal quote (or at least they shouldn't) without visiting site to properly assess the job. If they win the work their risk assessment and method statement has to be submitted to the HSE as part of the notification process and has to be accurate and normally includes photos and drawn plans of where the enclosure will be, how big their NPU will be, where the hygiene unit will be located etc etc. They can't do that if they have not been to site!

A free download of that document is available if you should wish to familiarise yourself with their responsibilities: http://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/priced/hsg247.pdf

(right click and Save Link As)
 
OP
'4. Section 8 of my Building Survey report contains a general warning about asbestos, advising that “some elements of construction contain asbestos”.

5. Most houses of this type and age will contain some asbestos and your property is not unusual in that it contains asbestos insulation board."
'

did you not read this part of the report?

Who advised you on what type of surveys to be carried out (ie did they say it should have a an asbestos survey?).
Did the written instructions to the surveyor include any details of your intended modifications to the property and any matters that may arise with respect to building regulations etc?
From RICS website it appears an asbestos survey is a different kettle of fish to a std house survey.

Another edit:
Residential Building Survey T&Cs
This type of survey is a structural survey and is typically conducted at the request of a client prior to purchasing a property. The report produced by the surveyor advises the client on the construction, visible condition and state of repair of the property and usually includes a market valuation and/or reinstatement cost.

Sorry OP but I don't think you've got much chance of winning.
 
Last edited:
Lude - Yes I did read it and I don't agree that throwing in a copy & paste disclaimer is good enough. As you can see from the pictures, it's not hidden, there is huge ceiling of it and I specifically asked about removing that wall in the garage to open it up under the whole house. If every tradesman I've had in has immediately queried 'is that ceiling asbestos?' Why hasn't a chartered surveyor queried it in his report?
His section in the report on the garage talks about the electrics in there, the water, the gas, the walls...he even mentions the electric garage door looking old....but not one mention of the ceiling.
I would have expected him to have recommended it be tested for asbestos and given estimated costs for removal (He did this for the boiler, the electrics etc etc it came to £30k worth of recommendations).

Maybe I am wrong and he doesn't have to mention this and his disclaimer gets him out of trouble, but I still feel conned paying him to survey the house and him missing something as obvious as that.

Buffetslayer - yes you're right that's exactly what's happening. Two firms coming out now, one tomorrow one on Monday. The one coming on monday said a ballpark figure would be £3.5k plus VAT, but will give a proper price when he assesses it.
 
Teknobry said:
Buffetslayer - yes you're right that's exactly what's happening. Two firms coming out now, one tomorrow one on Monday. The one coming on monday said a ballpark figure would be £3.5k plus VAT, but will give a proper price when he assesses it.
Click to expand...

I'm glad the ball is rolling for you. :)

If you have any questions about it all moving forwards, I'd be happy to offer my advice. Drop a reply in here or send me a message in trust.
 
after getting a couple of quotes i sent info off to the ombudsman. they have started looking into it and have requested more information. i've been slow to reply with still trying to do the house up. Will keep you updated with their replies once i've sent in the info they asked for :D
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom