Buying used in 2023

[mid_gen]

2 grand BMW shed vs 10 grand "modern" car..... what?! Nothing in between

2 grand car I don't care if it craps out after a year. Still cheaper than a new car.

10 grand car? Even 5 grand car, if it dies, I care about that sort of money. In reality you're not getting any more guarantee of reliability, you're just losing more if it does throw a bill.

 

[[TW]Fox]

E90 series is still mostly hardware.

How is it any different to the newer one? It isn't - I can't think of anything on a £15k 3 Series that is materially different to a £2k one. I also doubt any £2k E90 is going to give much more use, either. They are the worst cars on the market at that price point, whereas at least the £15k one is much newer, less worn out and much more likely to last you a few more years.

I simply do not like electronic interfaces in modern cars. There's potentially plenty of life left in these cars if they are maintained. My parents 530d is coming up to 300k, my mates A4 TDI is on 250k+, nothing more than usual wear and tear maintenance. You only need to run one a few months and you're already quids up versus finance/lease on something new.

What do you mean by an electronic interface? What is it you think these cars have because it doesn't currently make much sense.

You need a 1985 3 Series to get what you want not a 2005 one.

I absolutely understand the point of cheaper disposable cars, but an old BMW 3 Series is not a very good example of one. It's probably about the worst example of one.

 

[[TW]Fox]

But running an old car for Moon miles and not financing a new one every 3 years is bad for business

No it isn't - it supports an entire section of the economy. The majority of the aftermarket motor trade isn't fixing 2021 cars is it. Most independent garages are supporting older cars not new cars. They are all doing so whilst paying tax, business rates, etc.

 

[mid_gen]

How is it any different to the newer one? It isn't - I can't think of anything on a £15k 3 Series that is materially different to a £2k one. I also doubt any £2k E90 is going to give much more use, either. They are the worst cars on the market at that price point, whereas at least the £15k one is much newer, less worn out and much more likely to last you a few more years.



What do you mean by an electronic interface? What is it you think these cars have because it doesn't currently make much sense.

You need a 1985 3 Series to get what you want not a 2005 one.

I absolutely understand the point of cheaper disposable cars, but an old BMW 3 Series is not a very good example of one. It's probably about the worst example of one.

I don't know why you're struggling so much with the maths here.

Buy a £15k premium brand car. You spend £15k and you've got a well-used premium car that can throw a colossal bill, and you're probably stuck with paying it unless you write off that 15k.

Buy a 2k premium brand car. You've still got 13k in your pocket. If it throws a bill you can either fix it from the money you saved, or scrap it for 1k, and buy another one.....and you're still 10k to the good.

If I'm buying a cheap car, I don't see the point in buying a plastic French piece of crap that just as likely to die, might as well get a premium brand with a decent interior.

15k is just the worst price point for a premium car. Old enough to crap out expensively, new enough to cost a wedge.

 

[[TW]Fox]

I don't know why you're struggling so much with the maths here.

I don't know why you're struggling so much to tell me what makes a £2k 3 Series less 'electronic interface' than a £15k one. You seemed to be thinking that the £2k car is from a generation of simple and easy to repair 3 Series and the £15k car isn't but this is far from the case. They are equivalent in terms of the complexity - some even share the exact same engines between generations with the exact same electronic control systems...

Buy a £15k premium brand car. You spend £15k and you've got a well-used premium car that can throw a colossal bill, and you're probably stuck with paying it unless you write off that 15k.

Buy a 2k premium brand car. You've still got 13k in your pocket. If it throws a bill you can either fix it from the money you saved, or scrap it for 1k, and buy another one.....and you're still 10k to the good.

If I'm buying a cheap car, I don't see the point in buying a plastic French piece of crap that just as likely to die, might as well get a premium brand with a decent interior.

15k is just the worst price point for a premium car. Old enough to crap out expensively, new enough to cost a wedge.

Because the reality is you don't scrap it every time something goes wrong because it's more often than not lots of little things, none of which are worth scrapping the car on their own. Then by the time something does go wrong it's not a £2k car anymore it's more like a £5k car after the money you've poured into keeping something that really is at the end of its life on the road and the decision is then more complex.

You're not scrapping a £2k car because it needs a £350 repair. You're doing the repair. Now it's a £2350 car. Then a £200 repair. Then it needs tyres and you don't get a discount based on car value so 4 tyres for a 2005 3 Series costs the same as 4 tyres for a 2015 3 Series. Then a £500 repair. At what point do you stop? You're now much more than £2k into the car and you won't easily replace it with a similar one for another £2k. It's never as easy as 'just scrap it if it goes wrong'.

I don't disagree with you that a £15k premium car is far from a great idea either - but it gets worse as they get cheaper, not better. By the time you want to spend £2k on a car you are much better not wasting your time with a premium car.

 

[mid_gen]

I don't know why you're struggling so much to tell me what makes a £2k 3 Series less 'electronic interface' than a £15k one. You seemed to be thinking that the £2k car is from a generation of simple and easy to repair 3 Series and the £15k car isn't but this is far from the case. They are equivalent in terms of the complexity - some even share the exact same engines between generations with the exact same electronic control systems...

I dislike the interiors of modern cars, the digital dashboards and touch interfaces. E90 era is all analogue, which I like.

Because the reality is you don't scrap it every time something goes wrong because it's more often than not lots of little things, none of which are worth scrapping the car on their own. Then by the time something does go wrong it's not a £2k car anymore it's more like a £5k car after the money you've poured into keeping something that really is at the end of its life on the road and the decision is then more complex.

You're not scrapping a £2k car because it needs a £350 repair. You're doing the repair. Now it's a £2350 car. Then a £200 repair. Then a £500 repair. At what point do you stop? It's never as easy as 'just scrap it if it goes wrong'.

Spending a few hundred quid here and there is normal maintenance for an older car, and to be expected if it's 2k or 15k to start with. It's the big, potentially terminal 4 figure bills where you're up **** creek with your 15k car but have an easy out option if you don't have much invested in the car to start with.

I don't disagree with you that a £15k premium car is far from a great idea either - but it gets worse as they get cheaper, not better. By the time you want to spend £2k on a car you are much better not wasting your time with a premium car.

At 2k price point it doesn't matter squat whether it's a decent premium brand or a Dacia heap.... it's all getting worked on at my local cheap and reliable independent garage.

Cars can keep running well into multiple hundreds of thousands of mile if they're maintained.....people have just had shiny financed new cars on the drive normalised over the last couple of decades.

 

[[TW]Fox]

I dislike the interiors of modern cars, the digital dashboards and touch interfaces. E90 era is all analogue, which I like.

No it isn't - I had one and it had a large widescreen navigation system, an electronic drive by wire accelerator, digital connection for all the gauges in the instrument cluster (Your temperature gauge isn't showing you the temperature, it's a representation of what the ECU has told it to display). It has fully digital oil level measurement, etc etc. The next 3 Series - from 2011-2019 - changed basically nothing and was more or less the same. There is almost no difference between a 2015 and a 2005 3 Series in terms of how many digital interior components there are. Neither car has a touch screen.

It is far from what you seem to think it is - all those things you think are manual and traditional are electronically controlled behind the scenes. It is a modern car in all respects.

You'd like a 2015 3 Series just as much as a 2005 if you like normal looking (Remember, it's the computer telling it what to display, there is no direct connection to whatever it is measuring) gauges and no touch screens.

Spending a few hundred quid here and there is normal maintenance for an older car, and to be expected if it's 2k or 15k to start with. It's the big, potentially terminal 4 figure bills where you're up **** creek with your 15k car but have an easy out option if you don't have much invested in the car to start with.

I don't think these absolutely huge bills are quite as common as you seem to think. The reality is that you are not hugely likely to encounter a £5000 repair bill with a £15k 3 Series or a £2k 3 Series. You'll probably be fixing similar things - just more often with the cheaper car as it's twice the age, has twice the wear, etc etc. But at least the £15k car is much easier to find in good condition - I would be very surprised if any £2000 3 Series wasn't a pretty poor example.

At 2k price point it doesn't matter squat whether it's a decent premium brand or a Dacia heap.... it's all getting worked on at my local cheap and reliable independent garage.

Who is just as capable of working on the £15k 3 Series as well. Though he'd probably find himself doing so a bit less often.

 

[mid_gen]

No it isn't - I had one and it had a large widescreen navigation system, an electronic drive by wire accelerator, digital connection for all the gauges in the instrument cluster (Your temperature gauge isn't showing you the temperature, it's a representation of what the ECU has told it to display). It has fully digital oil level measurement, etc etc. The next 3 Series - from 2011-2019 - changed basically nothing and was more or less the same. There is almost no difference between a 2015 and a 2005 3 Series in terms of how many digital interior components there are. Neither car has a touch screen.

It is far from what you seem to think it is - all those things you think are manual and traditional are electronically controlled behind the scenes. It is a modern car in all respects.

You'd like a 2015 3 Series just as much as a 2005 if you like normal looking (Remember, it's the computer telling it what to display, there is no direct connection to whatever it is measuring) gauges and no touch screens.



I don't think these absolutely huge bills are quite as common as you seem to think. The reality is that you are not hugely likely to encounter a £5000 repair bill with a £15k 3 Series or a £2k 3 Series. You'll probably be fixing similar things - just more often with the cheaper car as it's twice the age, has twice the wear, etc etc. But at least the £15k car is much easier to find in good condition - I would be very surprised if any £2000 3 Series wasn't a pretty poor example.



Who is just as capable of working on the £15k 3 Series as well. Though he'd probably find himself doing so a bit less often.

People like you that pay for all the depreciation are the reason why people like me can buy premium quality cars for absolutely sod all and happily run them for years for peanuts

I am well past paying massive premiums for a newer reg, each to their own.

 

[[TW]Fox]

I am well past paying massive premiums for a newer reg

I had my last car for 7 years, so I'm not sure why you think I'm the one buying a new car every year for the latest registration number.

There is nothing premium quality about the sort of 3 Series you can buy for £2k. The good ones just never get down that far so you get left with the ones which are at the end of their life. A quick look at Autotrader shows most £2k 3 Series have no service history, part service history, or 4 different tyres, or damage, or lots of other things. Now, you can probably argue that for some people these things are not important and I agree with you but premium quality they are not.

A premium quality 2006 3 Series is still rather more than £2k.

 

[NVP]

2 grand car I don't care if it craps out after a year. Still cheaper than a new car.

10 grand car? Even 5 grand car, if it dies, I care about that sort of money. In reality you're not getting any more guarantee of reliability, you're just losing more if it does throw a bill.

Well yes you are... if your other choice is a 2k old bmw or audi


2k on an old jap mobile run by some old dears, yeh chillin. 2k on my old scraps... hell nah


e: I understand the irony of me running a 18yr old mini made by BMW looool, however I spent 3k, not 2

 

[mid_gen]

I had my last car for 7 years, so I'm not sure why you think I'm the one buying a new car every year for the latest registration number.

There is nothing premium quality about the sort of 3 Series you can buy for £2k. The good ones just never get down that far so you get left with the ones which are at the end of their life. A quick look at Autotrader shows most £2k 3 Series have no service history, part service history, or 4 different tyres, or damage, or lots of other things. Now, you can probably argue that for some people these things are not important and I agree with you but premium quality they are not.

A premium quality 2006 3 Series is still rather more than £2k.

So what, it ceases to be a BMW over a certain number of miles or years? Still the same car, and you can pick up decent ones if you shop around. Last one I was driving was a 2k e90 with 150k on the clock, full service history and ran fine for the few years I had it. Would still be driving it if I hadn't become a van life ******.

I'm just not one of these people that considers 100k cars 'end of life'. Plenty of life left in em, quality cars for peanuts as you go into it eyes open and pick a decent one that's been looked after. You're not going to convince me otherwise however much you want to argue semantics over the word premium.

 

[[TW]Fox]

I'm just not one of these people that considers 100k cars 'end of life'

Neither am I, I had one with 200,000 miles on it.

It sounds like you've not bought a 2k BMW for a number of years. The market is very different now and what you get for 2k now is more like what you used to get for about £500.

 

[DHR]

So I'll let you lot keep scrapping

She's ended up with a tidy A3, she's happy with it thus far. It's a dog in eco mode but soon as you whack on dynamic, more throttle response etc. drives more like a 'normal' car. It's got more lag than the other turbos I've driven but she's happy enough so all good.

Edit - I managed to dodge a load of the lane assistance nonsense too which is a bonus!