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Bye Bye AMD

Associate
Joined
18 Oct 2002
Posts
1,346
Location
Behind the bike shed
After using AMD for god knows how many years I've switched back to Intel. My main reasons are that shortly after upgrading to an Athlon 64x2 4400 which ment buying £1000 of kit AMD introduce the AM2 socket and are soon releasing the AM3 socket which makes upgrading a pain. AMD are having money problems also affected my desision. Intel are also back on top again.
I have never had a problem with Nvidia cards but for some reason I went to ATI for my last card (800XT) and have had lots of driver issues and as AMD and ATI are now husband and wife this also infulended my desision.


My new items

Core2Duo 2.4GHZ (4MB cache)
Asus P5b mobo
2GB Kingston DDR2 RAM

But my AMD items will be put to use to replace my server (Athlon 2400 XP)
Athlon 64 x2 4400
Asus A8N32-SLi Deluxe mobo
2GB DDR RAM

It will also have 931MB RAID5 drive

should make a nice server :)
 
Yeah I loved my x3800+ running at 2.5ghz and 500mhz ram with 2-2-2-5 timmings. But sadly Intel has the better product and seems they holding their lead. They have working silicon of the terascale chip and will probably introduce true quad core before AMD.

competition is needed so hopefully AMD brings things around. ATI used to make good cards, AMD used to make good chips.. Two rights cant be a wrong surely.

AMD should have learnt from the 939 to AM2 moans and stop their socket game. Now there seems to be "rumours" of selling fabs that cant really happen witha processor company, and also their quad core has problems. graphics and cpu are late to market.. To catch now they have to miss months of profit they could have made selling cards/cpus when they should have and they in debt!!

In the meantime I watch what happens from my e6600 which hopefully when I get home has done 12 hours prime at 3.6ghz. :)

My x3800+ is now my server too..... :(
 
intel were never NOT on top really, unless from your point of view (like they werent on top in terms of games, but were on top in terms of sales and mainstream)
 
And Toyota sell more cars than ferrari?

AMD had good performance and was gaining good server share. Intel though had Dell and most laptop people in their pocket so never really were loosing a the fight even though the K8 was a better product. Just seems AMD was doing well and now might loose the ground they gained. Intel is no small competitor to up against. If we look at number they run the graphic market too eventhough nvidia produces the best card right now.

Has AMD even got an answer to Intels terascale?
 
Tainted said:
Has AMD even got an answer to Intels terascale?

Considering Intel's teraflop chip is still a way off market entry and probably isn't currently (and probably won't be) compatible with today's software, it's a bit like saying some chap in the States has modified their Top Fuel dragster to pump out a bazillion horsepower.

Nice, but not particularly useful for anybody not going in a straight line on a runway. AMD/IBM's new stream processor is equally interesting, if not even equally applicable. But I suppose it depends on your point of view. If you want to go on Internet rumour and talk that is designed to make people part from their money, then fine. If you want to do the research behind what is actually going on, then even better.

AMD are in a tough spot right now - there is no denying it. However, they now make up a lot of what Dell stick inside their OEM boxes... they are also a cheaper alternative for laptop users who will not notice any difference between a Turion and a Core 2 Duo (not everybody runs SuperPi, you know). And who knows what Barcelona will do? I - personally - am not holding my breath for the next six months, but I am more than willing to be surprised.

Regarding hardware purchase, pretty much any time is a bad time to upgrade. This point in time is especially poor as there isn't much new hardware that is particularly interesting and there certainly isn't anything worth running (IMHO) that demands the ridiculous power available to the average user. This time is what I now call "the silly season" as there is nothing doing in the gaming market, the hardware market is resting on its laurels, and in four/five months' time, new games will bring current hardware to its knees.

As to ATI drivers: this is a prickly issue for me. Not once in six years of ATi ownership (right from the 9700Pro) have I had one issue with Catalyst that wasn't of my own design. But then, I don't know why you upgraded from a 4400 to... anything, at this point in time. But if you're happy with your purchase, then great.

I'm still happy with my Athlon XP 3200 w/ Radeon X800XTPE that still runs everything perfectly well (bar X3), but I'll probably upgrade in six months' time. Who knows what I'll be dropping into the case then...?
 
armatage said:
My main reasons are that shortly after upgrading to an Athlon 64x2 4400 which ment buying £1000 of kit AMD introduce the AM2 socket and are soon releasing the AM3 socket which makes upgrading a pain.

It's not as bleak as all that; indeed AM3 is out (probably not 'til next summer though), but the Agena core will run on an AM2 socket as far as I know...

It's for this reason that i'm about to upgrade to AM2, with the Agena support I know I should be ok for at least a year, and I tend to upgrade about that often anyway...
 
things are weird for AMD at the moment sure, but profits/turnover and debt are NEVER indications of how a company is doing.

for instance arsenal spent 400mil on a stadium which put us 300 mil in debt, but the increased sales mean 30-40mil extra tickets sales a year. the business model is something like, pay off 15-20 mil, make 10-15mil MORE profits than you were making without the debt. so you're making MORE money, even though you appear to be in debt. man u's takeover is the same deal, massive massive debt, but still making profits. thats how companies work.

the biggest problem is lack of capital to invest in more fabs and getting them working. the Dell deal was MASSIVE for amd, the problem is chip capacity and the lack thereof.

i would not be in the least bit surprised if in the next year, probo sooner there is a deal announced, a merger, or fab sharing, or some kind of big partnership betweenwith AMD and IBM, or AMD and TSMC(who are a very very big chip producing company who make chips to order for loads of companies, and who already produce extra chips for AMD due to them needing more than they can make and make ATI's chips ;) ).

the problem is, when you have 3 fabs, can sell more chips than they can make and need to move to newer processes which means downtime for the fabs you have issues. intel can simply change one fab over at a time out of their 762 fabs, to newer processes and chips as and when demand increases. at first conroe's sell a small amount on launch and sales are massive on p4's so they change one fab over, then another and slowly phase out older chips. amd haven't got the capacity or time/luxury to do that.

the problem is when a company like Dell call for 500k chips a year and AMD can't provide it they might lose the deal, so AMD simply can't afford not to keep producing chips which can delay switches to new process's and so on. if they are thought of in the industry of being unable to come up with chips they agree to make then no one will sign new deals for them. if buy using 3rd party fabs like TSMC to make extra chips at less profit then can keep Dell, their market share will keep increasing.

PS, their market share has INCREASED in the last year.

a TSMC deal would be fairly useful to them for added capacity , but only if TSMC can make more profit of amd chips than other chips, which means the deal would have to be pretty much a merger. if it was a deal with IBM, they already make chips together, IBM make chips for consoles that ati supply gpu's for, a combo design of a cpu with gpu on it for future consoles. design teams working together. AMD need some way to fund increased production anyhow.

as for chips, i'm about 90% sure we'll see a barcelona at 2.4-2.6Ghz on release, and it will poop on Intel, penryn is barely faster clock for clock than a kentsfield unless the app can use sse4, so in everything but encoding penryn = kentsfield native, + 20% clocks + 50% fsb.

intel were "behind" the Ath 64 range for 2-3 years? and yet didn't lose much market share, AMD despite the better chip didn't really gain market share any faster per year than they did with ath xp's which weren't officially faster than P4's. 1 year not with the official best cpu doesn't mean anything. judging from what i think is coming from both companies, amd's new chip will put them ahead again till the 16 cored cpu's from intel come out late 2k9, and only because they'll be able to switch to lower process much sooner than AMD.
 
Tainted said:
Yeah I loved my x3800+ running at 2.5ghz and 500mhz ram with 2-2-2-5 timmings. But sadly Intel has the better product and seems they holding their lead. They have working silicon of the terascale chip and will probably introduce true quad core before AMD.

competition is needed so hopefully AMD brings things around. ATI used to make good cards, AMD used to make good chips.. Two rights cant be a wrong surely.

AMD should have learnt from the 939 to AM2 moans and stop their socket game. Now there seems to be "rumours" of selling fabs that cant really happen witha processor company, and also their quad core has problems. graphics and cpu are late to market.. To catch now they have to miss months of profit they could have made selling cards/cpus when they should have and they in debt!!

No way dude....INTEL are atleast a year almost from native quad-core. AMD win that one hands down. As for 939...you wanna run DDR3 with your 939 cpu yeah? They had to change.....they don't do things for fun or because it wastes your money. New things cost a lot...if you want them you buy them...if not, you don't. Everyone knows the money you lose on new kit....it applies to ALL pc components. Think how I feel after spending £280 last year on a 7800GTX only to have it passed in performance by a 7900GT 4MONTHS later and at half the price? So you splashed a grand on parts that were updated like a year or so later.....no biggie...they still work....what's the problem? If you bought 939 a week before AMD launched AM2 then that's your bad judgement...not their's.

ergonomics said:
intel were never NOT on top really, unless from your point of view (like they werent on top in terms of games, but were on top in terms of sales and mainstream)

No they were top of sales only. AMD had server market, they had the lead in overall performance and beat out INTEL in virtually every benchmark imaginable.....that's what you call being on top. The fact that a tiny company can create superior products in a very fierce environment far outweighs the TOTAL earnings of a BIG RIVAL. Making the most money every year is nice sure......making the fastest product every year is far more important to others.

Tainted said:
And Toyota sell more cars than ferrari?

AMD had good performance and was gaining good server share. Intel though had Dell and most laptop people in their pocket so never really were loosing a the fight even though the K8 was a better product. Just seems AMD was doing well and now might loose the ground they gained. Intel is no small competitor to up against. If we look at number they run the graphic market too eventhough nvidia produces the best card right now.

Has AMD even got an answer to Intels terascale?

Good point......AMD now have ATi to look after and 2900XTX's to build ASWELL as barcelona quad-core, 65nm die shrinks, HT3.0, etc etc.

The best things come to those who wait. AMD delivered before and they'll do it again. They may take a little longer than expected or a litle longer than is suitable for some people.....but that's just a side effect of life. Things happen...and things go wrong. Happens at INTEL aswell. It took INTEL over 3yrs to come up with C2D as an answer to A64....where's the moans about that one?

mrthingyx said:
Considering Intel's teraflop chip is still a way off market entry and probably isn't currently (and probably won't be) compatible with today's software, it's a bit like saying some chap in the States has modified their Top Fuel dragster to pump out a bazillion horsepower.

Nice, but not particularly useful for anybody not going in a straight line on a runway. AMD/IBM's new stream processor is equally interesting, if not even equally applicable. But I suppose it depends on your point of view. If you want to go on Internet rumour and talk that is designed to make people part from their money, then fine. If you want to do the research behind what is actually going on, then even better.

AMD are in a tough spot right now - there is no denying it. However, they now make up a lot of what Dell stick inside their OEM boxes... they are also a cheaper alternative for laptop users who will not notice any difference between a Turion and a Core 2 Duo (not everybody runs SuperPi, you know). And who knows what Barcelona will do? I - personally - am not holding my breath for the next six months, but I am more than willing to be surprised.

Regarding hardware purchase, pretty much any time is a bad time to upgrade. This point in time is especially poor as there isn't much new hardware that is particularly interesting and there certainly isn't anything worth running (IMHO) that demands the ridiculous power available to the average user. This time is what I now call "the silly season" as there is nothing doing in the gaming market, the hardware market is resting on its laurels, and in four/five months' time, new games will bring current hardware to its knees.

As to ATI drivers: this is a prickly issue for me. Not once in six years of ATi ownership (right from the 9700Pro) have I had one issue with Catalyst that wasn't of my own design. But then, I don't know why you upgraded from a 4400 to... anything, at this point in time. But if you're happy with your purchase, then great.

I'm still happy with my Athlon XP 3200 w/ Radeon X800XTPE that still runs everything perfectly well (bar X3), but I'll probably upgrade in six months' time. Who knows what I'll be dropping into the case then...?

Very well said.

cosmogenesis said:
Economically Intel are unassailable. AMD could never hope for more than 30% of the entire market.

That's because they've been on the go so much longer. INTEL could stop selling CPU's today and in 2yrs time they'd STILL have more CPU's out there than AMD. Like the guy above said....who sells more....TOYATA or FERRARI? Now which would you prefer?
 
SOLDNER-MOFO64 said:
That's because they've been on the go so much longer. INTEL could stop selling CPU's today and in 2yrs time they'd STILL have more CPU's out there than AMD. Like the guy above said....who sells more....TOYATA or FERRARI? Now which would you prefer?

Toyata, why because im not into flash cars. And a Toyata would do me fine, traveling to and from work. And its so much cheaper.

So after my answer, what are you actually stating in your sentence?
 
cosmogenesis said:
Economically Intel are unassailable. AMD could never hope for more than 30% of the entire market.

What a silly comment! Ofcourse its possible for them to do that!

Hell for all we know Intel is in some massive scandel/tax dodging whatever and get sued to the ground, no-one wants to buy Intel and AMD take over!

Very very very unlikely situation but it shows that AMD can do it!
 
stickroad said:
Toyata, why because im not into flash cars. And a Toyata would do me fine, traveling to and from work. And its so much cheaper.

So after my answer, what are you actually stating in your sentence?

I ask you why you didn't choose AMD then if you like cheap things that'll do the same job for less than they're expensive counterparts?

You've just chosen AMD in that analogy, yet argue you think INTEL is better in everyway.....you don't make sense. :confused:
 
SOLDNER-MOFO64 said:
I ask you why you didn't choose AMD then if you like cheap things that'll do the same job for less than they're expensive counterparts?

You've just chosen AMD in that analogy, yet argue you think INTEL is better in everyway.....you don't make sense. :confused:

I chose Intel over AMD becuase they are in a different league when overclokcing and funny enough im into overclocking. If i wasent going to do any overclocking i would have went for AMD. So your first part of your sentence is wrong.

Now when have i ever said Intel is better in every way, where did you get that from? :confused:

Like i said i chose Intel because of the overclocking capabilities.

So infact you make even less sense than i do. :confused:
 
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stickroad said:
I chose Intel over AMD becuase they are in a different league when overclokcing and funny enough im into overclocking. If i wasent going to do any overclocking i would have went for AMD. So your first part of your sentence is wrong.

AMD bad for overclocking? You think THAT makes sense?

Now when have i ever said Intel is better in every way, where did you get that from? :confused:

By your tone......explain to me in which way you think AMD is BETTER then if you don't think INTEL are BETTER in everyway?

Like i said i chose Intel because of the overclocking capabilities.

Still doesn't make sense.....C2D overclock higher....and? Does that mean they are more CAPABLE of overclocking....no. If a cpu can overclock then it's capable.....if it can't it's INCAPABLE.

So infact you make even less sense than i do. :confused:
That's almost a complete impossibilty :)
 
SOLDNER-MOFO64 said:
AMD bad for overclocking? You think THAT makes sense?

I did not say AMD where bad for overclocking, what the hell are you reading. I said Core 2 Duo is better for overclocking and they are. At this point in time. I did not say AMD where bad for overclocking full stop.

SOLDNER-MOFO64 said:
By your tone......explain to me in which way you think AMD is BETTER then if you don't think INTEL are BETTER in everyway?

I am not saying AMD are better than Intel, nor am i saying Intel are better than AMD. When overclocking though Intel is the way to go. At the moment.

SOLDNER-MOFO64 said:
Still doesn't make sense.....C2D overclock higher....and? Does that mean they are more CAPABLE of overclocking....no. If a cpu can overclock then it's capable.....if it can't it's INCAPABLE.

Ok that makes no sense at all.
 
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jaykay said:
Stickroad means that intels overclock sooo much higher than amd. Thats why he choose them.

I know that's what he meant, I just wanted him to word it correctly.

INTEL (as we all know) are also far easier to OC due to FSB/MEM DIVIDER only. As I understand it nOObs practice on INTELS first to get the basics down then they switch to AMD for a proper challenge ;) :p
 
SOLDNER-MOFO64 said:
I know that's what he meant, I just wanted him to word it correctly.

INTEL (as we all know) are also far easier to OC due to FSB/MEM DIVIDER only. As I understand it nOObs practice on INTELS first to get the basics down then they switch to AMD for a proper challenge ;) :p

Not really mate. Where do you get all this from?
 
my first AMD overclock was my X2 and that was easy. maybe i was lucky but i found no difference in overclocking either AMD or Intel (apart from intel overclocking further of course)
 
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