Can someone explain...

[SexyGreyFox]

Is it ever acceptable to say that? Should we always live in fear of others taking offence at something we might do? Where do you draw the line, if somebody says "I'm offended", when do you just ignore them?

We're having a themed night on 'Dead parents & family who have died a horrible death from cancer' and then a paedo themed night where we all dress as well known paedo's.
It's just bantz.

 

[FoxEye]

We're having a themed night on 'Dead parents & family who have died a horrible death from cancer' and then a paedo themed night where we all dress as well known paedo's.
It's just bantz.

I think we established already that nobody is going to have a Nazi, KKK, Moors murder-themed event.

Some here thought a miner's strike event was every bit as serious as those three examples, and others thought it wasn't.

Tbh I'm a bit surprised that people would consider them in the same general ballpark. Some miners lost their jobs and had to rely on state hand-outs for a time. They lost their dignity but weren't in any mortal danger, as we have social safety nets in this country.

I'm not sure how that ranks equal to the systematic murder of Jews or black people in the US. But hey, what do I know.

 

[Vonhelmet]

I think we established already that nobody is going to have a Nazi, KKK, Moors murder-themed event.

Some here thought a miner's strike event was every bit as serious as those three examples, and others thought it wasn't.

Tbh I'm a bit surprised that people would consider them in the same general ballpark. Some miners lost their jobs and had to rely on state hand-outs for a time. They lost their dignity but weren't in any mortal danger, as we have social safety nets in this country.

I'm not sure how that ranks equal to the systematic murder of Jews or black people in the US. But hey, what do I know.

I only brought up the Moors murderer idea because someone said that the miner’s strike had a low death toll, so it was apparently fair game. Never mind that I’d dispute the low death toll... it’s also ridiculously short sighted to act as though everything is fine now and that all the ex miners and their communities are sorted now. And you’re still saying that some things are fair game and others not, without actually committing to drawing a line anywhere, which is smart given that you don’t seem keen to admit that anything is off limits or that anyone should possibly ever limit their behaviour to avoid causing offence.

Anyway, back to the party planning,

How about a James Bulger themed event? That’s only one death. Just one waffer thin toddler death! That’s definitely fewer than the miner’s strike.

We could do a rapist and rape victim themed party. I don’t think murder-rape is that common, so you’re definitely on safe ground there.

 

[FoxEye]

I only brought up the Moors murderer idea because someone said that the miner’s strike had a low death toll, so it was apparently fair game. Never mind that I’d dispute the low death toll...

How about a James Bulger themed event? That’s only one death. Just one waffer thin toddler death! That’s definitely less than the miner’s strike.

We could do a rapist and rape victim themed party. I don’t think murder-rape is that common, so you’re definitely on safe ground there.

Why are you going off on this tangent?

The miners strike is not defined by the three people who died.

James Bulger is an event centered on a murder. A murder-rape party would be centered on/celebrating a murder-rape.

In the first case the deaths are incidental to the event.

In your examples the deaths *are* the event.

It's called context.

Here's another example of context... a construction worker might die during the construction of a bridge. Do you refuse to use the bridge because a man died? Do you refuse to talk about it/ celebrate its completion? Do you associate the bridge with death because a person died building it? Does the bridge become a memorial to death? If you use it do you celebrate the death of the worker?

Not as far as I'm concerned. The death, whilst tragic, is incidental to the bridge's construction, and the bridge is not defined by the death that occurred.

The miner's strike did result in the deaths of three people. But that is not what the strike revolved around. The deaths were an unintended consequence.

Like I said, people have heart attacks at DisneyLand. We don't suddenly look at DisnyeLand as a place where people die. It isn't defined by those events.

 

[Tunney]

I think we established already that nobody is going to have a Nazi, KKK, Moors murder-themed event.

Apart from that Conservative MP from
Cannock who got sacked.

Tbh I'm a bit surprised that people would consider them in the same general ballpark. Some miners lost their jobs and had to rely on state hand-outs for a time. They lost their dignity but weren't in any mortal danger, as we have social safety nets in this country.

It’s not in the same ballpark but what happened is still a tragedy. What made the closing of the pits so tragic was that it was the only industry sustaining whole communities. The death of the mining industry was the death of those communities. The miners knew it and that’s why they fought so hard to protect their jobs.

Imagine then on top of that, the government, police and the media treating you like the most terrible of criminals. Just for trying to stop the slow death of your town.

I thought that someone like you would have more sympathy for their plight.

 

[FoxEye]

I thought that someone like you would have more sympathy for their plight.

I absolutely would have if it was happening today.

But this was 30 years ago. It has long since passed the point where people should have moved on.

 

[Vonhelmet]

I absolutely would have if it was happening today.

But this was 30 years ago. It has long since passed the point where people should have moved on.

Look at the most impoverished areas in the country. Look at where the mines, mills, etc. closed. See if you can spot any parallels. These areas have not yet recovered, and will not for some time yet,

Still, once the ocuk “Get over it and move on” motivational tour gets round the country I’m sure they’ll sort it out where countless others have failed.

 

[Vonhelmet]

Why are you going off on this tangent?

The miners strike is not defined by the three people who died.

James Bulger is an event centered on a murder. A murder-rape party would be centered on/celebrating a murder-rape.

In the first case the deaths are incidental to the event.

In your examples the deaths *are* the event.

It's called context.

Here's another example of context... a construction worker might die during the construction of a bridge. Do you refuse to use the bridge because a man died? Do you refuse to talk about it/ celebrate its completion? Do you associate the bridge with death because a person died building it? Does the bridge become a memorial to death? If you use it do you celebrate the death of the worker?

Not as far as I'm concerned. The death, whilst tragic, is incidental to the bridge's construction, and the bridge is not defined by the death that occurred.

The miner's strike did result in the deaths of three people. But that is not what the strike revolved around. The deaths were an unintended consequence.

Like I said, people have heart attacks at DisneyLand. We don't suddenly look at DisnyeLand as a place where people die. It isn't defined by those events.

Ok, so the miner’s strike is defined by the gutting of countless communities around the country with lasting effects decades after. Sounds like a rich comedy seam!

 

[FoxEye]

Ok, so the miner’s strike is defined by the gutting of countless communities around the country with lasting effects decades after. Sounds like a rich comedy seam!

I'm sorry, but 30 years is plenty of time to re-skill.

It's not anyone's fault if these communities have spent the last 30 years mourning for the loss of the mining industry, and little else.

 

[Vonhelmet]

I'm sorry, but 30 years is plenty of time to re-skill.

It's not anyone's fault if these communities have spent the last 30 years mourning for the loss of the mining industry, and little else.

It’s always so easy solving other people’s problems, isn’t it?

 

[Boycey0211]

I'm sorry, but 30 years is plenty of time to re-skill.

It's not anyone's fault if these communities have spent the last 30 years mourning for the loss of the mining industry, and little else.

You've managed to make it to your 40's without reskilling tbh.

Which seems incredibly heavy handed. Another case of being terrified of causing offence and distress to people with nothing more important to care about?

Or is this something really awful that I'm just not understanding the significance of?

I'm going with option B here, but hey don't let me get in the way of yet another one of your pointless quarrels.

Enjoy Von!

 

[dowie]

I'm sorry, but 30 years is plenty of time to re-skill.

It's not anyone's fault if these communities have spent the last 30 years mourning for the loss of the mining industry, and little else.

yup, attitude/culture etc.. count for a lot - some of my relatives were miners, one was adamant that none of his kids would ever work down a mine and placed a big emphasis on education thus after being brought up in a very poor working class environment (with multiple siblings) they all ended up becoming middle class

a similar attitude is common from say Chinese and Indian immigrants to the UK - this first generation if unskilled will just work really hard and encourage their kids to work hard at school... the second generation then excel and become doctors etc.. (ok not all of them become doctors, that is an exaggeration but these communities/cultures are observed to generally outperform most others)

some white working class communities have families that have been unemployed for 3 generations and have a really poor attitude about it - others got it sorted a generation or two ago

 

[FoxEye]

You've managed to make it to your 40's without reskilling tbh.

I haven't spent the last 30 years unemployed tho.

 

[Boycey0211]

I haven't spent the last 30 years unemployed tho.

I assume you speak with regard to all miners with that blanket statement then?

 

[FoxEye]

I assume you speak with regard to all miners with that blanket statement then?

Tell me, how do you explain a community being "devastated" by the closure of the mines... and 30 years later still not having recovered? If everybody had moved on and trained to do some other form of work those communities wouldn't be in a bad way today.

How do towns and cities with no mining industry manage to get by? They found other work to do, right? And some of these cities with no mining industry actually have a lot of people living and working in them.

Which suggests to me that the closure of the mines shouldn't still be cited as the cause of the ruination of these communities 30 years later. They should have been able to re-build by now.

 

[Boycey0211]

Tell me, how do you explain a community being "devastated" by the closure of the mines... and 30 years later still not having recovered? If everybody had moved on and trained to do some other form of work those communities wouldn't be in a bad way today.

How do towns and cities with no mining industry manage to get by? They found other work to do, right? And some of these cities with no mining industry actually have a lot of people living and working in them.

Which suggests to me that the closure of the mines shouldn't still be cited as the cause of the ruination of these communities 30 years later. They should have been able to re-build by now.

So when something bad happens we should just move on, forget it ever happened and you honestly cant empathise with anyone enough to realise they might be upset if you mock them?

Essentially what you're pointing out in this thread is just a complete lack of social skills.

 

[Caged]

Just lol if you can't tell the difference between a university not wanting to be dragged through the mud over the actions of their students, and a limitation to freedom of expression.

You know as well as I do that exactly the same sorts of publications that would make a big noise about a university preventing students doing x would also kick up a huge stink if said students actually did x.

 

[FoxEye]

So when something bad happens we should just move on, forget it ever happened and you honestly cant empathise with anyone enough to realise they might be upset if you mock them?

Essentially what you're pointing out in this thread is just a complete lack of social skills.

Imagine the grief I'd get if I lost my job and claimed not to be able to find another for the next three decades.

I doubt there'd be much (any) sympathy coming from you or anyone else

So why give the (ex)miners a free ride?

 

[Boycey0211]

Imagine the grief I'd get if I lost my job and claimed not to be able to find another for the next three decades.

I doubt there'd be much (any) sympathy coming from you or anyone else

So why give the (ex)miners a free ride?

IIRC there was an entire thread where people gave you pages upon pages of really good advice and you ignored all of it.

Get over it, move on, reskill and never moan about it again.

 

[FoxEye]

IIRC there was an entire thread where people gave you pages upon pages of really good advice and you ignored all of it.

Get over it, move on, reskill and never moan about it again.

All you did there is dodge the question. If I spent two or three decades unemployed how much sympathy would I get here?