Can someone explain...

Systematic destruction of an industry is different to one person being unemployed, hth.

It's like not understanding why Port Talbot might be a bit screwed if/when the steelworks closes and unable to comprehend why everybody doesn't just become an account manager for AWS.
 
FoxEye said:
All you did there is dodge the question. If I spent two or three decades unemployed how much sympathy would I get here?
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If you did nothing to help yourself like you did in that thread, then zero.

But you're skirting around every point I make because you just like the argument, again you've just assumed that everyone affected by the miners strike has been out of work for 30 years.

Im guessing you still cant comprehend how a family breadwinner losing possibly the only option for employment might still be a sore topic after 30 years even if they picked themselves out of it.
 
Caged said:
Systematic destruction of an industry is different to one person being unemployed, hth.

It's like not understanding why Port Talbot might be a bit screwed if/when the steelworks closes and unable to comprehend why everybody doesn't just become an account manager for AWS.
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Nobody is failing to understand why an area might be impacted by the loss of its biggest employer.

What is striking is the fact that 30 years have past and they're still "suffering" from the closure of the mines. 30 years is 1.5 generations. Heck, their kids should have been to school, perhaps got a degree, and could be doing anything. The miners themselves could well have retired by now.
 
Suffering doesn't mean everybody is unemployed. The loss of a large/only employer has massive repercussions that take a long time to recover from, so it's completely understandable why an area might still be feeling the impact several decades later. If you cannot comprehend how that is possible and have some genius plan to prevent it happening then perhaps that's your calling in life.
 
Boycey0211 said:
If you did nothing to help yourself like you did in that thread, then zero.

But you're skirting around every point I make because you just like the argument, again you've just assumed that everyone affected by the miners strike has been out of work for 30 years.

Im guessing you still cant comprehend how a family breadwinner losing possibly the only option for employment might still be a sore topic after 30 years even if they picked themselves out of it.
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**** happens. People lose their jobs all the time. Am I supposed to feel bad for them, 30 years (and potentially countless jobs) later? Sorry, can't bring myself to have sympathy for a job they lost 30 years ago.

It's practically ancient history.

What this thread shows is the capacity for bitterness to survive many, many decades. But I don't give a fig for your bitterness, and don't believe we should tread on eggshells because you've got a massive chip on your shoulder.
 
FoxEye said:
**** happens. People lose their jobs all the time. Am I supposed to feel bad for them, 30 years (and potentially countless jobs) later? Sorry, can't bring myself to have sympathy for a job they lost 30 years ago.

It's practically ancient history.

What this thread shows is the capacity for bitterness to survive many, many decades. But I don't give a fig for your bitterness, and don't believe we should tread on eggshells because you've got a massive chip on your shoulder.
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WTF lol

This thread is comedy gold, foxeye strikes again :D

(no pun intended)
 
Caged said:
Suffering doesn't mean everybody is unemployed. The loss of a large/only employer has massive repercussions that take a long time to recover from, so it's completely understandable why an area might still be feeling the impact several decades later. If you cannot comprehend how that is possible and have some genius plan to prevent it happening then perhaps that's your calling in life.
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You know all those gold rush towns that cropped up? When the gold ran out they dismantled the towns and left.

If you have a town where the sole industry is closed down, maybe your first choice should be to go somewhere else. In the thread that Boycey was keen to bring into this discussion that was the #1 piece of advice given to me. "Move if you want more money." As it happens I didn't want the extra money enough to uproot. If these miners couldn't find any other work it strikes me they had much more reason to move than I do. I may not earn a fortune but I have no problems finding work at least.

If we're measuring "suffering" purely in terms of the population being smaller with lots of run-down areas and empty housing... I just see that as part of the cycle of birth and death. If you stay in a dying area when you have a choice to leave, then you can't really blame anyone else but yourself.
 
Don't you constantly complain about the opportunities available in Cornwall though? Just seems a bit strange to post in such ruthless terms when you're known for wanting people to empathise with your own position.
 
FoxEye said:
Nobody is failing to understand why an area might be impacted by the loss of its biggest employer.

What is striking is the fact that 30 years have past and they're still "suffering" from the closure of the mines. 30 years is 1.5 generations. Heck, their kids should have been to school, perhaps got a degree, and could be doing anything. The miners themselves could well have retired by now.
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Almost everyone smart and ambitious does leave. Imagine what effect that has on a town. These communities are in terminal decline but not everyone means or the freedom to move away.

Maybe that's just the way of things but it's still sad to see.
 
Caged said:
Don't you constantly complain about the opportunities available in Cornwall though? Just seems a bit strange to post in such ruthless terms when you're known for wanting people to empathise with your own position.
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I'm staggered to see his responses. Let alone the ignorance from lack of knowing the history.
 
Tunney said:
Almost everyone smart and ambitious does leave. Imagine what effect that has on a town. These communities are in terminal decline but not everyone means or the freedom to move away.

Maybe that's just the way of things but it's still sad to see.
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Stoke was a mining City (along with Pottery) and a hell of a lot of Miners were illiterate so weren't smart or ambitious.
When Creda/Hotpoint shut down in 2007, 65% of the workforce had reading/writing difficulties and people had to be assigned to them for filling in job applications etc.

Yes old Miners should 'get over it' but only two weeks ago Big Si wouldn't come to our meal because Gay Dave was coming. Gay Dave broke the picket line and Simon couldn't forgive him. My Brother in Law hasn't spoke to his older brother since the Miners strike because he broke the picket line unbelievably one week before they were closed. His older brother was also given handouts by Union Men where Paul wasn't (that went on a lot).

The Miners strike always reminded of the line out of the U2 song -
And the battle's just begun
There's many lost, but tell me who has won
The trench is dug within our hearts
And mothers, children, brothers, sisters
Torn apart

It sounds like an exaggeration but if you lived in Stoke at the time it wasn't.
 
Caged said:
Don't you constantly complain about the opportunities available in Cornwall though? Just seems a bit strange to post in such ruthless terms when you're known for wanting people to empathise with your own position.
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I recall saying that Cornwall is a depressed area with mostly low-wages. But that in itself isn't the issue. The problem (this is off-topic and I'm not going to respond in detail) is that Cornwall has low wages coupled with a very high cost of living.

I couldn't care less what people think about my own situation, lol. I had a choice to stay or leave and chose to stay because I'm comfortable here, and I'm extremely risk averse. Just part of my nature. But things would be very different if I couldn't find work and had no prospects of doing so. Then I would feel that there was no choice and I'd have to move. As it is I'm on UK nat avg wage (just under) which is enough to get by.

My biggest gripe isn't what I earn (in a vacuum this means nothing) but how big the gulf between earnings and house prices is down here. Absolutely no hope of ever owning a place in Cornwall with 1x nat avg UK wage. Unless they start doing 75 year mortgages :p
 
CBA to read the whole thread.

Is this not more to do with middle class students appropriating the lower classes? Isn't that the new cool? To hide behind a lower class smoke screen?

If this is the case, I can see why it is deemed offensive.
 
Vonhelmet said:
Epically facetious. Good work.
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true tho... :D

kids of 1st gen immigrants who came to this country from thousands of miles away are succeeding yet there are populations of "native" Britons living in some communities in the UK that won't even move to the nearest town/city in search of work but simply expect the state to provide for them just as it has done for the generation before and the one before that

the US term "white trash" is fairly apt when describing some of these people - the slightly worrying thing is that they tend to have more kids and tend to have them earlier in life
 
dowie said:
seems a bit ridiculous, even with the potential for angry locals etc... people are getting way too sensitive re: taking offence etc..

when it crosses the line on the grounds of say race i.e. black face then sure but in this case the objection is regarding purely political sensitivities which is frankly ridiculous as politics has always been fair target for mockery

also it is clearly the lefty/miners thing that is causing the butthurt, if they'd just dressed up to mock thatcher and tories without anything to do with the miners strike then I'd wager there wouldn't be any issue as universities are overwhelmingly run by lefties

I remember back when I was at uni there was some controversy over a vicars and tarts themed event party supposedly being "sexist" - it didn't get cancelled though, instead it was pointed out to the angry feminist/socialist worker types that both men and women can be vicars and that quite a few men were planning to dress as tarts too

frankly with stuff like this, if you don't like it then don't attend the event

edit - spelling
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Not much choice for the locals since the event was a pub crawl where they drink. If it had been on campus, maybe different.

To use your example it would have been like organising the vicars and tarts party to go from church to church.
 
maybe less to do with the actual theme and more to do with the location

Durham and the durham coal fields were a massive part of not just employment but of the local way of life in general

the failure of the UK coal industry crippled the entire north east for a generation and killed a way of life

they still hold the annual miners gala in Durham with all the old pits represented complete with pit bands etc.

http://www.durhamminers.org/gala

sacrison2.jpg




the communities have rebuilt...but its a deeply ingrained part of their history, mining runs right through these places, traced all the way back to lead mining from the middle ages right through to deep coal mining from the time of the industrial revolution

so while it may not be offensive to many in the rest of the country...its remarkably insensitive to the city that is hosting them as students
 
Must a generational thing. The people in that pic are a lot older than me.

Speaking to parents, etc, a common theme is how many of them believe life was better 20,30,40 years ago. Just nostalgic/living in the past, I would say.

I guess in a decade or two most people won't really care too much about coal mines that closed 40-50 years ago.
 
I am not sensitive the the mines closing but i can acknowledge that it may have been to certain communities. There is always the temptation to skirt the line of acceptable behavior when it comes to sports socials. The choice of the theme likely did not meant to offend specifically however it was likely also chosen because it is a somewhat sensitive subject to many and is so considered somewhat edgy. What the rugby players take as a cheeky, silly dress-up will be taken as a mockery of hard times by certain families. Being not from this area and younger, i share a closer view to the rugby players but full well appreciate what problems it would cause.

As you say, soon it won't matter. Surely it is better to avoid reviving any bitterness and let the matter past, even if it meant that a few young lads will have to choose a slightly less controversial theme dress-up to pub-crawl through a load of local pubs in.
 
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