Canadian Grand Prix 2010, Circuit Gilles Villeneuve, Montreal - Race 8/19

Stormrider · 11 Jun 2010 at 19:38

Interesting post in BBC comments.

BBC Sport's Andrew Benson in Montreal: "One of the big questions this season has been just why the Red Bull is so fast. It has emerged that the single biggest reason is the design of the car's rear end, with the exhausts exiting low down in the 'coke-bottle' shape in front of the rear tyres. This smoothes the airflow around the back of the car and creates a huge amount of extra downforce, explaining the car's gob-smacking speed in fast corners. I asked a veteran engineer from another team how much lap time this was worth, guessing at about half a second. He said: 'Even more.' I was flabbergasted. He told me that four or five of the other teams are working on their own versions of the design and they would appear in the next few races. One of them is known to be Ferrari, who will have it for the next race of the season in Valencia. They need it, having dropped off the pace in the last couple of races - but if the new design is worth what my source says it is, they could leapfrog right back to the front."

It'll be interesting to see who brings out new designs and if they can close down RBR.

Duke · 11 Jun 2010 at 20:04

ooo very interesting

deuse · 11 Jun 2010 at 20:19

vettel has Front tire graining!

Stormrider · 11 Jun 2010 at 20:33

deuse said:
vettel has Front tire graining!

Sounds like everyone has graining of some form. Paffet is wondering if we might see a 2 stop race.

deuse · 11 Jun 2010 at 20:39

Stormrider said:
Sounds like everyone has graining of some form. Paffet is wondering if we might see a 2 stop race.

Well it looks like the softs will only last 7-8 laps. So who is going to be brave and stick with the hard
also we may have rain..it's going to be great come sunday.

Flibster · 11 Jun 2010 at 21:19

Not one in the wall.

I was expecting Petrov to twonk it. Although FP3 seems to be his favourite for crashing, just to stress his engineers out more.

SPARC · 11 Jun 2010 at 21:20

Still surprised none of the new boys have hit a wall yet.

Glaucus · 11 Jun 2010 at 22:14

Iplayer -
Formula 1 - 2010 - The Canadian Grand Prix - Practice One
Live coverage of the first practice session from the Canadian Grand Prix. Seven races into the season the pressure is on the drivers and teams to make the most of the 2010 season.

Iplayer -
Formula 1 - 2010 - The Canadian Grand Prix - Practice Two
Live coverage of the second practice session from the Canadian Grand Prix. The Red Bull team must deal with the fall out from the Turkish GP as McClaren try to take the advantage.

dalin80 · 11 Jun 2010 at 22:34

deuse said:
Well it looks like the softs will only last 7-8 laps. So who is going to be brave and stick with the hard
also we may have rain..it's going to be great come sunday.

button radio'd that his rear tyres were shot on their second lap.

JRS · 11 Jun 2010 at 22:38

hiroofheroes said:
If you look at the speed trap figures for Kubica and Petrov it's pretty clear it's not the Renault engine that gives Red Bull the lower top speed, thats just the latest excuse - KERS,F-Duct, engine equality - there's always something that unfairly penalises Red Bull

Who's saying it's unfair?

As for the Renault car being quick through the speed trap with that engine - as I'm sure you know, any car can be quick through the trap if they run a low-drag low-downforce setup. It's making that kind of setup work through an entire lap that determines pace, and holding enough of that pace for a GP distance is yet another thing entirely.

Not having your cars crash into each other helps as well.

Stuff that I don't think can be argued against right now:

1) The Mercedes motor is the most powerful in F1 for the moment
2) The McLaren is very slippery in a straight line thanks to some neat design choices and the F-duct
3) RBR's car really ought to have won more by now if it is as far ahead of the field as some would claim
4) Ferrari are in no position to challenge for the title this year by a looooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooong way

sunama · 11 Jun 2010 at 22:49

JRS said:
4) Ferrari are in no position to challenge for the title this year by a looooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooong way

I'm not sure about that.

With the new points system in place, we have seen that a driver who is in 1st place one race, can drop to 6th by the end of the next race (Massa). Similarly, a driver who is a fair few points behind the leader, can get back in the title race, by having 1-2 good race results.

I agree that the Ferrari is currently in no shape to challenge for wins, but if Alonso can hang in there, should the Ferrari be capable of winning races towards the end of the season, anything can happen.

You have to remember that they have employed the services of Alonso, not to finish in the midfield. They specifically brought him in and pay him a huge amount, specifically to win the title and to beat the likes of Hamilton and McLaren

DBT85 · 11 Jun 2010 at 22:55

i expect the tyres to last a ittle longer come the race just because the track is still very green. They wont last THAT long though. I think i saw a quote from the McLaren test driver saying that graining was so bad we could well see all teams running a 2 stop.

JRS · 11 Jun 2010 at 22:57

sunama said:
You have to remember that they have employed the services of Alonso, not to finish in the midfield. They specifically brought him in and pay him a huge amount, specifically to win the title and to beat the likes of Hamilton and McLaren

They employed Schumacher to come in and win titles, and that took a few years to get going

Ferrari are on one of their lean runs. It happens. They'll be back at the pointy end at some point. But even as a dyed-in-the-wool Ferrari fan I can't see it happening this year. McLaren are too good, RBR are too good, Mercedes and Renault are right up there.

Yes, Alonso is a two-time champion. Yes, Massa is actually a lot better than this forum would like to admit. But neither of them are going to be able to drag that car to the front if the development race keeps going the way it is right now. They only have a win on the board thanks to the RBR breaking after all....

dalin80 · 11 Jun 2010 at 23:28

JRS said:
3) RBR's car really ought to have won more by now if it is as far ahead of the field as some would claim

They are/were miles ahead of the field only odd reliabilty issues and a vettel brain-fade have stopped them walking away with almost every win so far.

They have squandered their best chance of gaining a mahoosive lead and gave time for their competitors to catch up.

sunama · 11 Jun 2010 at 23:54

JRS said:
They employed Schumacher to come in and win titles, and that took a few years to get going

When MS joined them, Ferrari had not won a World Title since 1979. MS joined them in 1997, if memory serves me correctly. So yes, it did take a while for Ferrari to get going.

However, Ferrari as it is today, contains personnel and staff who were part of the team which dominated a few years ago.

You simply cannot compare the Ferrari team which MS joined in 1997 with the Ferrari team Alonso has joined in 2010.

I agree with you in that RedBull really do have a great car, but as we have seen so far, you also need to have great drivers to make use of a great car.

The chances of Alonso winning the title are indeed slim, but to count him out totally is a little early.

sunama · 11 Jun 2010 at 23:59

dalin80 said:
They are/were miles ahead of the field only odd reliabilty issues and a vettel brain-fade have stopped them walking away with almost every win so far.

They have squandered their best chance of gaining a mahoosive lead and gave time for their competitors to catch up.

I'll agree with that, except for the wet races, where car superiority is negated and as such we have seen Vettel and Webber dissapear into the middle of the grid in such races.

I think what Senna did at Donnington in 1993 is the best example of this: on a dry track, he stood virtually no hope of coming even close to the all-conquering Williams car (Prost and Hill started on the front row). But on a wet track, Senna was able to lap the 2nd placed man (Hill).

On a dry track, RedBull still have the potential to finish 1-2 in every race (for the forseeable future).

gord · 12 Jun 2010 at 00:24

Didn't watch the second FP, were the McLarens doing fuel runs?

1 second covering the top 10 isn't bad..

dalin80 · 12 Jun 2010 at 07:09

They did several longer stints throughout the session, it was only at the very start they did what looked like a flying lap run but even that was with at least 8 laps worth of fuel and was literally when the track was at its greenest, no mclaren driver even set a green sector for the final hour.

dannyjo22 · 12 Jun 2010 at 08:57

sunama said:
However, Ferrari as it is today, contains personnel and staff who were part of the team which dominated a few years ago.

You simply cannot compare the Ferrari team which MS joined in 1997 with the Ferrari team Alonso has joined in 2010.

MS joined in 1996, you can compare the teams most of the brilliant personel that were assembled for the 'MS' years have left ferrari or retired.

When MS joined Ferrari they were the 3rd best constructor from 95 a distant 3rd. When Alonso joined Ferrari were a distant 4th last year. I'd say last years ferrari relative to the 95 ferrari is very comparable.

arknor · 12 Jun 2010 at 09:11

last years ferrari was unusually slow for them though its not like they have been bad for a few seasons