Poll: Canadian Grand Prix 2019, Montréal - Race 7/21

[Leeroy Jenkins]

If he was on a tarmac run off area it would 100% be the correct decision as he can easily rejoin at a much safer time due to having more control over the car, the problem is with the grass and the wall he can't slow down too much or he may get stuck there and he can't just slam on the brakes without turning or he gets blocked by the wall and can't rejoin so he has to make a turn towards the track or it's pretty much race over for him if he stops on the grass.

It should have been put down to a racing incident in my opinion because he just had to keep his momentum going and didn't have a lot of control over his car on the grass.

 

[OpenToSuggestions]

The suspension collapse on Norris’ car not exciting enough for you? I bet he found it quite stimulating.

It wasn't enough excitement for a full race length.

 

[SDK^]

It should have been a racing incident with no penalty

 

[JBeck]

If he was on a tarmac run off area it would 100% be the correct decision as he can easily rejoin at a much safer time due to having more control over the car, the problem is with the grass and the wall he can't slow down too much or he may get stuck there and he can't just slam on the brakes without turning or he gets blocked by the wall and can't rejoin so he has to make a turn towards the track or it's pretty much race over for him if he stops on the grass.

He didn't have to slam on the brakes and he wouldn't have stopped on the grass. All he had to do was let the car roll over the grass or give it less throttle. It's very simple really.

 

[MissChief]

He didn't have to slam on the brakes and he wouldn't have stopped on the grass. All he had to do was let the car roll over the grass or give it less throttle. It's very simple really.

And then loads of people would be giving him **** for ‘letting Hamilton past’ or ‘not keeping his foot in’. It was a racing incident and should have been called just that.

 

[deuse]

And then loads of people would be giving him **** for ‘letting Hamilton past’ or ‘not keeping his foot in’. It was a racing incident and should have been called just that.

And what would have happened if Vettel had taken out Hamilton because of his mistake?

The FIA should release the telemetry data.
It would shut people up. Vettel had time to slow down but he didn't.

 

[MartinPrince]

Exactly. The stewards looked at the telemetry, saw that he did NOT lift enough to avoid the incident and ruled accordingly, it's that simple.

All this arguing is Ferrari fans with major butt-hurt, that's it. You lot can scream Merc/Hamilton supporters are fanboys/wrong/blind as much as you want but the fact remains that telemetry doesn't lie.

Precisely, plus there is nothing in the rules regarding intent or motive. If you return to the track in an unsafe manner (whether intentional or not) and end up blocking somebody then the penalty applies. It seems the Vettel doesn't really understand the rule as he was moaning about his lack of intent and that where else was he supposed to go. His petulance sometimes overshadows his great driving ability.

 

[Apone70]

Precisely, plus there is nothing in the rules regarding intent or motive. If you return to the track in an unsafe manner (whether intentional or not) and end up blocking somebody then the penalty applies. It seems the Vettel doesn't really understand the rule as he was moaning about his lack of intent and that where else was he supposed to go. His petulance sometimes overshadows his great driving ability.

+1

 

[timmeh]

I can't believe how many people are calling for it to have been left alone as a racing incident! That would open a can of worms and set a precedent of being able to block drivers after making a mistake and disguising it as being "out of control". No. Seb had enough control to deliberately turn right and position the car to block Lewis. Seb probably lost 2 seconds at least during that incident and Hamilton was a second behind. Why should Lewis lose out due to Seb buckling under pressure. Lewis forced the error and it was the peak of the battle and Seb tried to cheap out and claw back his error coz that's the kind of person he is.

He didn’t deliberately turn right though, the car was sliding.

I don’t think there’s any precedents being set here, it’s been happening for a long time. Just look at Hamilton blocking Ricciardo after a mistake in 2016, squeezing him into the wall.

 

[Apone70]

He didn’t deliberately turn right though, the car was sliding.

I don’t think there’s any precedents being set here, it’s been happening for a long time. Just look at Hamilton blocking Ricciardo after a mistake in 2016, squeezing him into the wall.

He left room for Ricciardo

 

[SDK^]

He didn't have to slam on the brakes and he wouldn't have stopped on the grass. All he had to do was let the car roll over the grass or give it less throttle. It's very simple really.

Simple when you are sat watching it on your TV, but not so simple when you're paid millions to achieve results for a leading car company and have reputations to uphold.

 

[timmeh]

He left room for Ricciardo

He forced Ricciardo to brake to avoid a collision. Vettel left Hamilton room too, pic here

The point I was making was that you can defend after making a mistake and you absolutely don’t have to give up the position

 

[JBeck]

Simple when you are sat watching it on your TV, but not so simple when you're paid millions to achieve results for a leading car company and have reputations to uphold.

What reputation? One of making mistakes? Yes he upheld it brilliantly. Regardless of watching it on my TV I have a motorsport hobby and can handle surface changes just fine thanks, and I don't get paid millions to do it.

Just face it, he should have handled it but he didn't, end of.

 

[Apone70]

I dont see the 2 incidents as the same though mate. When they slowed it down and looked at it you can see he left him room. It would have been tight but he left him a cars width.
Also that picture was a few seconds after Hamilton had braked and backed out of it.

 

[Deleted member 651465]

Is it weird that I watched a clip of the incident on mute, during my lunch break and heard SHOUTY CROFTY in my head

I even checked the volume to make sure I didn’t just have it on low and was convinced I could hear him shouting.

 

[JBeck]

And then loads of people would be giving him **** for ‘letting Hamilton past’ or ‘not keeping his foot in’. It was a racing incident and should have been called just that.

No they wouldn't because he went off the circuit, it's hardly 'letting' Hamilton past, and they would have realised that he couldn't keep his foot in because he was on grass. And that's the point, you can't hoof it on grass in an F1 car, how on earth did he think he'd keep the car straight

Regardless, he ironically let Hamilton past by not letting Hamilton past, in the end...

 

[Mr Jack]

To see if he, or how hard he accelerated coming off the grass. Did the grass cause him to lose grip or did he floor it too much trying to stay ahead.

Well, apparently, it was important and they do have it: Vettel Steering Inputs Key to FIA penalty decision.

 

[drunkenmaster]

FIA are ruining what has already been such a borefest of a season thus far even more.

It was a racing incident, nothing less nothing more.

Why do people say this. Incidents are deemed racing incidents when one party isn't found entirely or the majority to blame.... in what way wasn't the entire incident caused by Vettel? What part in it did Hamilton have?

When someone locks up, completely unintentionally, but hits someone or causes them to go off the track and lose a position, it's still your fault, it was your actions that caused it not the other guy. It literally can't be a 'racing incident', if Vettel is completely to blame for the incident when Hamilton did nothing even close to wrong.

 

[Mr Jack]

Precisely, plus there is nothing in the rules regarding intent or motive. If you return to the track in an unsafe manner (whether intentional or not) and end up blocking somebody then the penalty applies. It seems the Vettel doesn't really understand the rule as he was moaning about his lack of intent and that where else was he supposed to go.

It was worse than that, he moaned that if he'd done anything else he couldn't have blocked Hamilton and he'd have got past. Well, yes, that's kinda of the point, dear boy.

 

[drunkenmaster]

He didn’t deliberately turn right though, the car was sliding.

I don’t think there’s any precedents being set here, it’s been happening for a long time. Just look at Hamilton blocking Ricciardo after a mistake in 2016, squeezing him into the wall.

https://streamable.com/snhp

People need to realise that onboard cameras give a warped perspective.

Look at the 18-19 second mark. Not only did Hamilton not force Ricciardo to brake, he left plenty of room and didn't move over further. There is a car width + 6 inches one side, 1-2 feet on the other side. Ricciardo just panicked and lost it a bit on the much wetter edge of the track. Ricciardo didn't have to brake, nor did he have to back out. You can see plain as day that Hamilton straightened up the car with room to spare and moved over no more. One fish eye onboard camera which doesn't accurately portray the gaps does not make a good argument.

Well, apparently, it was important and they do have it: Vettel Steering Inputs Key to FIA penalty decision.

Yup, Karun's video wall replay of it was attrocious. He had a snap of oversteer on entering the track, it was literally a split second, you can physically see him get it under control, Hamilton even gets alongside after that and Vettel is steering no where near full lock to the left, if he kept steering left while completely under control there is space for Hamilton. Instead Cettel straightens up the wheel and the gap on the right closes. He was pushing Hamilton into the wall to prevent him passing even though Hamilton got alongside. After Hamilton manages to dab the brakes and get out from it Vettel moves over further. Hamilton had every right to stay there and when Vettel hit him it would have been a penalty for Vettel simply for pushing him into the wall.

It's incredibly clear that he has time and space after he catches and gets the car under control to keep turning and leave space but straightens up the wheel and closes it.