I guess half the problem is that our only person who might be a threat from crosses was stuck on the left wing again. Even still, you'd expect them to cause at least a few chances from the 30+ crosses from the right hand side.
Capital One Cup Quarter-Final 11/12/19 December *** Spoilers ***
- Thread starter Cosimo
- Start date
LOL i think they have been having those moments for quite a few yrs now, just the board and Wenger wont do anything about it.
Arsenal had their peak a few years ago. A bit like Everton in the mid 80's, they were nowhere in the 90's and early 00's and have only recently (last 5 ish years) been finishing consistently in the top 8 or so. These things come in cycles and I think Arsenal are likely to drop further, possibly into the bottom half for a few seasons yet...
Caporegime
- Joined
- 18 Oct 2002
- Posts
- 33,188
I really don't care about the cup, I don't care if we lose games, no team wins all games. I don't even care about one bad performance, or a bad month, because that happens. But when we just suck, over and over again, no matter the competition, and have been in steady decline for this long, that I do care about, very very much. I was a completely happy Arsenal fan till 7 years ago, the change in the team was very obvious and pretty instant, but with the same quality squad the effects weren't dramatic. Over time with a worsening squad the changes in tactics, style, problems are becoming more apparent every year and at the moment the team is playing like crap.
I'd also much prefer we put out a heavily youth/reserve team that put up a fight and lost with some respect AND rested the first team, than play the first team, play like crap, no rest, and no chance for younger players to prove anything.
Gervinho, there are really no words for that miss, it was beyond pathetic.
EDIT:- also worth noting is Wenger is saying they have nothing to be embarrassed about because the team gave their all. TO some degree you can agree with that, they didn't turn up and not try, they turned up and just weren't good enough. Though some of them should be embarrassed to get such wages and be outplayed by guys making 1/60th of what they are making(probably less in many cases), but then who would turn down wages.
But this all really points to, if the players shouldn't be embarrassed because THEY tried their hardest and got beaten by a league 2 outfit.... then Wenger sure as **** should be embarrassed to have put together a team that plays THAT badly when it plays with maximum effort. It was Wenger who bought these players, Wenger who decided to give them massive wages, Wenger who refuses to drop those who I won't say underperform as much as just really aren't footballers. Should the players be embarrassed... I'm not sure anyone didn't play with maximum effort and only a few players didn't play to their ability. Wilshire and Coquelin were both actually excellent, Chamakh played as I expect someone with zero form to play, Gervinho is completely crap but performed exactly as he is capable of at his best. Podolski is the only player who was WAY below what he's capable of, but then again he's been played out of position with either Gervinho trying to make chances for him, or was working to make Gervinho chances, there isn't much of a way to look good in either situation.
Gervinho, 14mil, £60k a week or so... Wenger should be embarrassed, Mertesacker, 8-10mil, 80k a week, Wenger should be embarrassed, Gibbs free, £40-50k a week, Wenger should be embarrassed.... etc, etc.
I'd also much prefer we put out a heavily youth/reserve team that put up a fight and lost with some respect AND rested the first team, than play the first team, play like crap, no rest, and no chance for younger players to prove anything.
Gervinho, there are really no words for that miss, it was beyond pathetic.
EDIT:- also worth noting is Wenger is saying they have nothing to be embarrassed about because the team gave their all. TO some degree you can agree with that, they didn't turn up and not try, they turned up and just weren't good enough. Though some of them should be embarrassed to get such wages and be outplayed by guys making 1/60th of what they are making(probably less in many cases), but then who would turn down wages.
But this all really points to, if the players shouldn't be embarrassed because THEY tried their hardest and got beaten by a league 2 outfit.... then Wenger sure as **** should be embarrassed to have put together a team that plays THAT badly when it plays with maximum effort. It was Wenger who bought these players, Wenger who decided to give them massive wages, Wenger who refuses to drop those who I won't say underperform as much as just really aren't footballers. Should the players be embarrassed... I'm not sure anyone didn't play with maximum effort and only a few players didn't play to their ability. Wilshire and Coquelin were both actually excellent, Chamakh played as I expect someone with zero form to play, Gervinho is completely crap but performed exactly as he is capable of at his best. Podolski is the only player who was WAY below what he's capable of, but then again he's been played out of position with either Gervinho trying to make chances for him, or was working to make Gervinho chances, there isn't much of a way to look good in either situation.
Gervinho, 14mil, £60k a week or so... Wenger should be embarrassed, Mertesacker, 8-10mil, 80k a week, Wenger should be embarrassed, Gibbs free, £40-50k a week, Wenger should be embarrassed.... etc, etc.
Last edited:
Caporegime
- Joined
- 18 Oct 2002
- Posts
- 33,188
Nope, we sold one of our best strikers with Anelka, Wiltord, some of our best midfielders, Overmars, Petit, some of our best defenders, etc, etc.
Selling for big money and buying for little works great.... when you haven't lost your eye for potential, talent/ability. When Wenger had it, it worked great, and its worked for Barca, and Real, and Utd, Chelsea, Liverpool, etc, etc.
There is no club, including Barca, Real, Bayern, Utd, Chelsea who haven't sold their best players repeatedly over the years... its got smeg all to do with success or lack of it. There is ALWAYS a new player and there has been essentially 2 completely irreplaceable players in the past decade in terms of quality, and one of those was sold, and his old club still won titles.
When you sell your best players.... and buy completely crap replacements for no reason that you didn't have to buy but prevented you buying bargain top quality players.... this is what happens
What would have happened if we bought Baines instead of Gervinho, Michu instead of Santi, Llorente instead of Giroud, a footballer instead of Walcott, a top defender instead of Mert of Squillaci.
Wenger wont be sacked
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/fo...azidis-set-face-fans-fury-Emirates-event.html
I think both Wenger and the board have a lot to answer for, sky high prices to watch games at the Emirates when our team in no way, shape or form justify our fans paying such stupidly high prices. Havent won a trophy since moving into the Emirates, perhaps it was a bad omen moving from Highbury to the Emirates, well the past 7 or so seasons have shown just how bad things have become for Arsenal.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/fo...azidis-set-face-fans-fury-Emirates-event.html
I think both Wenger and the board have a lot to answer for, sky high prices to watch games at the Emirates when our team in no way, shape or form justify our fans paying such stupidly high prices. Havent won a trophy since moving into the Emirates, perhaps it was a bad omen moving from Highbury to the Emirates, well the past 7 or so seasons have shown just how bad things have become for Arsenal.
Caporegime
- Joined
- 18 Oct 2002
- Posts
- 33,188
Keep saying it, every extra transfer window at this point is likely extra players that a new manager will be stuck with.
Still good managers can make bad buys, and bad managers can make good buys. I haven't seen nearly enough of Zaha to know if he's decent... but Wenger's insistance on buying wingers fills me with -48% confidence he'll buy the right guys.
Hell look at his history, take Henry a youth striker, and he turned him into a failing winger. His fix for Henry at Arsenal was reversing the mistake HE made at Monaco turning him into a winger, as a striker again, worlds best. That alone should tell you Wenger screwed up henry, not found a gem, it was pure luck. Unfortunately EVERY god damned striker we've bought since Henry has been pushed to the wing to "become Henry" before being played upfront again.
Because Wenger seems to think Henry being one of the best in the world was somehow due to playing on the wing for a bit, despite the fact his career went downhill in his spell as a real winger. Its failed, miserably for EVERY striker he's done this to, yet he still does it, its god damned embarrassing.
He used to buy wingers to play on the wing, Overmars, Pires, Freddie, etc, since then I don't think he's bought a winger. THeo, striker, Arshavin, withdrawn striker, Rosicky, central, Diaby, central, AOC... not entirely sure, looks better through the middle, Gervinho, striker, Reyes, striker, Wiltord, striker, Eduardo, Vela, Bendtner, strikers. All guys that got pushed to the wing to varying degree's of success, simply good players still did well on the wing, thats what good players do.
You know what simple things I want from life, a manager who buys a left midfielder/left winger, to play on the left wing, a striker to play, upfront, and a right winger to play on the.... wait for it... it will shock you.... right god damned wing.
Quite hilariously Wilshire was a genuine wide player who played mostly on the wings including at Bolton.... got pushed inside instead
Ryo looks quality, no sign of him, Eisfeld looks a quality wide player, no sign of him either.
The next manager is going to have a Liverpool style time, overpayed, overpriced squad, he'll need to drastically reduce the wage bill to make room to buy new players, and that will take time as the Joe Cole's/Maxi's/etc all hang on till the end of their contracts. I can see Arsenal fans expecting instant success, and we'll actually have a few liverpool esque years. We could get lucky, a few Michu's and actually playing what good young players we have instead of the crap and we could get lucky and do much better. But if we drop off, the new manager will end up under silly pressure like KK/Hodgson/Rodgers is getting towards and most Chelsea managers end up with.
Honestly I think any half competant manager can get more out of this team by training the defence properly, Verm, Kos and Jenks are decent, maybe someone could even get a decent performance out of Gibbs. Just playing our better wingers/strikers and central midfielders would improve us.
Still good managers can make bad buys, and bad managers can make good buys. I haven't seen nearly enough of Zaha to know if he's decent... but Wenger's insistance on buying wingers fills me with -48% confidence he'll buy the right guys.
Hell look at his history, take Henry a youth striker, and he turned him into a failing winger. His fix for Henry at Arsenal was reversing the mistake HE made at Monaco turning him into a winger, as a striker again, worlds best. That alone should tell you Wenger screwed up henry, not found a gem, it was pure luck. Unfortunately EVERY god damned striker we've bought since Henry has been pushed to the wing to "become Henry" before being played upfront again.
Because Wenger seems to think Henry being one of the best in the world was somehow due to playing on the wing for a bit, despite the fact his career went downhill in his spell as a real winger. Its failed, miserably for EVERY striker he's done this to, yet he still does it, its god damned embarrassing.
He used to buy wingers to play on the wing, Overmars, Pires, Freddie, etc, since then I don't think he's bought a winger. THeo, striker, Arshavin, withdrawn striker, Rosicky, central, Diaby, central, AOC... not entirely sure, looks better through the middle, Gervinho, striker, Reyes, striker, Wiltord, striker, Eduardo, Vela, Bendtner, strikers. All guys that got pushed to the wing to varying degree's of success, simply good players still did well on the wing, thats what good players do.
You know what simple things I want from life, a manager who buys a left midfielder/left winger, to play on the left wing, a striker to play, upfront, and a right winger to play on the.... wait for it... it will shock you.... right god damned wing.
Quite hilariously Wilshire was a genuine wide player who played mostly on the wings including at Bolton.... got pushed inside instead
Ryo looks quality, no sign of him, Eisfeld looks a quality wide player, no sign of him either.
The next manager is going to have a Liverpool style time, overpayed, overpriced squad, he'll need to drastically reduce the wage bill to make room to buy new players, and that will take time as the Joe Cole's/Maxi's/etc all hang on till the end of their contracts. I can see Arsenal fans expecting instant success, and we'll actually have a few liverpool esque years. We could get lucky, a few Michu's and actually playing what good young players we have instead of the crap and we could get lucky and do much better. But if we drop off, the new manager will end up under silly pressure like KK/Hodgson/Rodgers is getting towards and most Chelsea managers end up with.
Honestly I think any half competant manager can get more out of this team by training the defence properly, Verm, Kos and Jenks are decent, maybe someone could even get a decent performance out of Gibbs. Just playing our better wingers/strikers and central midfielders would improve us.
Last edited:
Bit annoyed that Coquelin got subbed as he was arguably our best player to that point and had been playing well of late.
Chamberlain seems well off the boil of late, and was atrocious last night, his crossing reminded me of Walcott from a couple of years back. You'd have thought coming on as sub he'd be ripping it up in extra time against tired legs, but he seemed more interested in whinging at Chamakh for a crap pass that to be fair was 99999999x more accurate than most of his.
Highlight of the night was Davie Provan questioning Cazorla for taking a penalty with his right foot as apparently most of his shots in game had been with his left, what a moron he has clearly not watched enough of Santi. He is the most two-footed player I have ever seen (makes the likes of Zidane look like Rosicky in that department) but for dead balls he uses his right.
Also loved the commentator saying "the official line is Arsenal have named this side because they don't play until Monday, but the cynics might suggest Arsenal have played a strong team because they are desperate for a trophy" as though wanting to win a trophy was something to be ashamed of.
Chamberlain seems well off the boil of late, and was atrocious last night, his crossing reminded me of Walcott from a couple of years back. You'd have thought coming on as sub he'd be ripping it up in extra time against tired legs, but he seemed more interested in whinging at Chamakh for a crap pass that to be fair was 99999999x more accurate than most of his.
Highlight of the night was Davie Provan questioning Cazorla for taking a penalty with his right foot as apparently most of his shots in game had been with his left, what a moron he has clearly not watched enough of Santi. He is the most two-footed player I have ever seen (makes the likes of Zidane look like Rosicky in that department) but for dead balls he uses his right.
Also loved the commentator saying "the official line is Arsenal have named this side because they don't play until Monday, but the cynics might suggest Arsenal have played a strong team because they are desperate for a trophy" as though wanting to win a trophy was something to be ashamed of.
Soldato
- Joined
- 29 Dec 2004
- Posts
- 17,078
- Location
- Shepley
Davie Provan is an idiot though, every game he comes up with more stupid ****. It's amazing how poor Sky's commentary team is actually.
I would prefer to concentrate on getting into the CL rather than winning the Europa I think it will end up being one or t' other. CL will allow us to recruit players that improve our squad, Europa won't. I see the long term improvement of Spurs being founded on consistently qualifying for the CL
winning the capital cup will not help arsenal regain the glory days. Players and fans do not respect it. You can't recruit talent on the basis of it either. Arsenal improving from the current position of 4th relies on CL status being maintained the capital cup is a hugely insignificant trophyin the enterprise of returning a football club to challenging for top honours.
Why is this even in dispute? This trophy is worthless when it comes to helping clubs improve.
Because striving for CL quailification over trophies has enabled arsenal to keep hold of their best players year after year right?
Deleted member 651465
Deleted member 651465
Uninspiring performance by Swansea, but a win is a win 
Caporegime
- Joined
- 18 Oct 2002
- Posts
- 33,188
Its not worthless, Arsenal are seen across Europe as completely unable to win anything right now, therefore a win suggests a turn around for Arsenal.
As for recruiting top players, its a complete fallacy that CL football is required to attract quality footballers. Look across the premier league for top players bought in the past couple seasons alone that have gone to non CL clubs.
How would Arsenal be today if we had Tiote, Cabaye, Ba, Michu, Baines. Falcao just left a champs league Porto, for a Europa cup Athletico.
CL football is widely regarded in the press as essential to improving a team... and complete BS.
Trophies themselves mean nothing, there will be 4-5 players every season who are hyped out of all sanity, and big clubs will pay huge money for them, and the reality is there are ALWAYS 5 players just as good who go for a fraction of the price because the press haven't randomly decided they are the best players in the world.
Arsenal can improve on the current squad rather easily without having CL football to attract players, if anything Wenger is stuck with the mentality of over paying for players from CL clubs for no apparent reason at the moment.
Mertesacker, Gervinho, Giroud, he's over paying for awful or average players purely because they had fluke good seasons for champions at the time.
Its the "we're Arsenal, top four, so should really be looking to buy established players from other top four/european competition clubs", hows that working out?
There are dozens of fantastic players who move every year for various reasons, from free's all the way up to 40mil, who go from champs league teams to relegation strugglers in other leagues, and from relegation strugglers to champions as well.
Should we forego league performance to win the carling cup, not a chance, is the carling cup itself important, no, is the winning mentality at a club, the belief it can win important, yes. Considering Arsenal are fast becoming a joke across Europe for their inability to win anything, that is a reason for top players to not choose Arsenal more than anything else. Suggesting Arsenal can win something isn't a bad message at this point in time.
CL football is a pretty huge revenue generator compared to Europa. That is the wage bill for some top players right there.
Obviously not all talent only goes to CL clubs. The beauty of the cash of the CL and the appeal of the competition is the ability of clubs in the CL to buy proven players. Regardless of Wenger's policy, Arsenal can go and buy tiote, michu and ba after they have established themselves with CL cash and appeal.
A capital cup win is hardly going to resonate around Europe that arsenal are on the rise again.
Edit- arsenal hoisting the cup screaming we beat Middlesborough in the final is just worthless. Even if you get the dream final of arsenal against chelsea with the first teams played and arsenal win, the sacrifice made is extra games undertaken in return for a hopeful boost in morale. Err thanks but no, I would prefer £40m cl cash and all the improved sponsorship cash.
Arsenal pointing to the cc as proof they can win would just prove the European conceit that arsenal don't win anything. Now they are forced to not bother with CL, and not the league not even the f a cup but this shoddy little thing no one above the championship cares about.
Obviously not all talent only goes to CL clubs. The beauty of the cash of the CL and the appeal of the competition is the ability of clubs in the CL to buy proven players. Regardless of Wenger's policy, Arsenal can go and buy tiote, michu and ba after they have established themselves with CL cash and appeal.
A capital cup win is hardly going to resonate around Europe that arsenal are on the rise again.
Edit- arsenal hoisting the cup screaming we beat Middlesborough in the final is just worthless. Even if you get the dream final of arsenal against chelsea with the first teams played and arsenal win, the sacrifice made is extra games undertaken in return for a hopeful boost in morale. Err thanks but no, I would prefer £40m cl cash and all the improved sponsorship cash.
Arsenal pointing to the cc as proof they can win would just prove the European conceit that arsenal don't win anything. Now they are forced to not bother with CL, and not the league not even the f a cup but this shoddy little thing no one above the championship cares about.
Last edited: