Car back from service

Dandle · 26 Mar 2006 at 02:51

tb2000 said:
A lot of the time though it's only the tensioner(s) that need replacing.

With that statement I dont believe youve had much to do with cam chains. If the tensioner needs replacing then the chain surely does too, if the chain has come to the limit of the tensioner then the chain has stretched, unless you know about tensioners failing before chains do then let us know about it.

Zip · 26 Mar 2006 at 10:04

Joe T said:
Labour at my nearest BMW dealer is £142 per hour... (I think that includes VAT)

Who gets all that money? Would the mechanics see much of it or would the Dealership get most of it :eek:

If the mechanics saw most of it, that would be a good incentive to become a BMW mechanic

Malachy · 26 Mar 2006 at 10:29

Dandle said:
With that statement I dont believe youve had much to do with cam chains. If the tensioner needs replacing then the chain surely does too, if the chain has come to the limit of the tensioner then the chain has stretched, unless you know about tensioners failing before chains do then let us know about it.

on a lot of cars the tensioner is the problem, the tensioner fails causing belt or chain to slip,usually this is the failure when people say "Boohoo my cambelt snapped" its not uncommon for a belt to snap but more common for tensioner failure.

Malachy · 26 Mar 2006 at 10:30

Zip said:
Who gets all that money? Would the mechanics see much of it or would the Dealership get most of it
If the mechanics saw most of it, that would be a good incentive to become a BMW mechanic

dealership does, mechanics wages do not change much (well not enough to explain the hike in labour charges) from ford through to bmw.

Steve JL · 26 Mar 2006 at 12:23

Zip said:
Who gets all that money? Would the mechanics see much of it or would the Dealership get most of it
If the mechanics saw most of it, that would be a good incentive to become a BMW mechanic

Trust me it certainly isnt the mechcanics who get the money at BMW stealerships.

I have served my full proper apprenticeship(4 years) and have twenty years plus experience on a wide range of high end cars but when I was offered a job at a BMW dealer they wanted to pay me 18k a year plus bonus!!

Unfortunately its the same pretty much everywhere for every franchise nowadays

.

Steve

Tesla · 26 Mar 2006 at 12:55

My Dad takes his A6 to a local Audi Specialist garage.

They are really fantastic, very professional, always correctly diagnose a fault (OK so it has only ever had one fault in 3years of ownership (lamda sensor)) and are reasonable price wise.

I think taking the car to the main dealer would be pointless as it's now 5 years old so the fact it doesnt have FASH but FSH isn't an issue at all. If I was buying it the FASH compared to FSH wouldnt bother me.

Malachy said:
on a lot of cars the tensioner is the problem, the tensioner fails causing belt or chain to slip,usually this is the failure when people say "Boohoo my cambelt snapped" its not uncommon for a belt to snap but more common for tensioner failure.

You should have seen my Mondeo tensioner when got the belt changed, about 2mm from cracking into two pieces!

Scania · 26 Mar 2006 at 14:44

Not for nothing are dealers refered to as stealers! However, they cartainly have the know how and backing from the manufacturer when problems arise.

Whilst my BMW was in the (BMW) Dealers having an ABS issue sorted, I had the brakes overhauled, costing me £400+ including the ABS fault, seriously expensive certainly, but, it has to be said, my local specialist ,and Krap Fit, ATS & National Tyres could'nt cure the ABS problem whilst BMW could.....

My father has only recently stopped using BMW to service his old e39 528i, has to be said, its still running faultlessly, but considering the money he's spent maintaining it at main dealer rates, I'd expect it to!

Specialists in the main, dealers as a last resort, only when pockets are deep though.

tb2000 · 26 Mar 2006 at 15:36

Dandle said:
With that statement I dont believe youve had much to do with cam chains. If the tensioner needs replacing then the chain surely does too, if the chain has come to the limit of the tensioner then the chain has stretched, unless you know about tensioners failing before chains do then let us know about it.

I can tell you a few just from memory, the XK8 V8 4.0 litre has a tensioner problem for starters. Also the 2.0 Sierra Twin cam 8 valve engine has problems with tensioners (although they do have a habit of snapping chains as well). The 2.5 (iirc) litre turbo diesel Frontera engine has tensioners which fail and guides which snap. We had one in a while ago which had a tensioner with a lot of play in it and also the top of the right hand guide was completely snapped off. Luckily for the customer the bolt which would held it had somehow came out and wedged itself between the block and the chain cover! :eek:

If that had got in the chain it would've been disasterous. As for cambelts, not so long ago we had to replace the tensioners and belt on a 1.6 Mondeo where the plastic tensioner had broke off of the metal bearing wheel. It broke into four pieces, meaning the belt went loose and subsequently bent 12 of the 16 valves! :eek:

To name but a few....

Dandle · 26 Mar 2006 at 22:18

tb2000 said:
The 2.5 (iirc) litre turbo diesel Frontera engine has tensioners which fail and guides which snap. We had one in a while ago which had a tensioner with a lot of play in it and also the top of the right hand guide was completely snapped off. Luckily for the customer the bolt which would held it had somehow came out and wedged itself between the block and the chain cover! If that had got in the chain it would've been disasterous.

Ok point taken but they must be design issues really and are not normal wear and tear. Are you sure about this one its got timing gears and no chains and the 2.8TD Frontera has a belt. Although the very early 90s 2.3 had a chain which would probably put it at a high mileage vehicle at a guess.

AmDaMan · 26 Mar 2006 at 22:33

I would be asking for a full breakdown of parts and labour.

Then make your assumptions.

Bradmax57 · 26 Mar 2006 at 22:36

pdw8 said:
My wife took our car for its 80k service yesterday and I knew it needed the cambelt changing. She collected it today and the final total was £1584

At least they gave it a free valet

Whats the most expensive garage bill you have ever had? (everyday work not tuning etc)

a friend of mine just got a bill for his cerberra of £3400

ouch!

tb2000 · 26 Mar 2006 at 22:51

Dandle said:
Ok point taken but they must be design issues really and are not normal wear and tear. Are you sure about this one its got timing gears and no chains and the 2.8TD Frontera has a belt. Although the very early 90s 2.3 had a chain which would probably put it at a high mileage vehicle at a guess.

Ah yes that's the one, a 2.3TD. I think it's what they call the ice cream van engine as it was found in Bedford CF vans originally. It could've been a design flaw but the left one was very worn. Although the one that snapped (on the right) wasn't worn. It was a high(ish) mileage vehicle - the year was an M reg, so mid nineties. I think the tensioners had been done before though so this is why I mention this one.

Third Opinion · 27 Mar 2006 at 09:06

A girl at work has just had her X reg BMW 323i returned from the dealer. Its blown its head gasket for the second time although this time its not under waranty. She refused to to divulge the exact amount but coupled with a major service and a couple of other items she didn't get much change from 3k.

Last month I had a 2.5k bill for a rebuild on my Alfa.

Dam these cars are getting expensive.

pdw8 · 27 Mar 2006 at 09:28

Third Opinion said:
A girl at work has just had her X reg BMW 323i returned from the dealer. Its blown its head gasket for the second time although this time its not under waranty. She refused to to divulge the exact amount but coupled with a major service and a couple of other items she didn't get much change from 3k.

Last month I had a 2.5k bill for a rebuild on my Alfa.

Dam these cars are getting expensive.

Now even I know that she is crazy, I mean thats probably more than the car is worth.
Going back to my car, I'm waiting for the service manager to call me back as they have charged me about £100 for a oil sensor that should have been done under the extended warranty. It didnt even fix the problem, the low engine oil light is permanently on.

However, the serious issue is that on the invoice they advise that the front subframe is CRACKING and making a knocking noise and the rear anti roll bar is also knocking. They did not do this work but surely this will be covered under the warranty??

big_white_dog84 · 27 Mar 2006 at 09:48

These bills are making me feel much better. I've just had to pay £200 for two new tyres and a new exhaust. I was only expecting about £70 for some cheap-ass tyres, but the exhaust has been rattling around and the guy showed me that it needs replaced. Still £130 more than I was expecting though

Cassius Clarke · 27 Mar 2006 at 10:15

my largest bill to date was £1135 on the 911, 6 hours labour, new coil packs (6 in total) vario ram adjusters replaced (engine dropped completly for this) new piston rings new head gasket new oil filter new air filter new new castrol GTX magnatech in the engine and oil changed in gear box, wheel bearings re greased then re sealed, aswell as a full valet and complete zymol once over

Cassius Clarke · 27 Mar 2006 at 10:16

big white dog, 200 pound for 2 tyres and an exhaust is a bargain, one rear for my 911 costs 195 pound, the exhuast was 4 grand . . . .

big_white_dog84 · 27 Mar 2006 at 10:25

Cassius Clarke said:
big white dog, 200 pound for 2 tyres and an exhaust is a bargain, one rear for my 911 costs 195 pound, the exhuast was 4 grand . . . .

I know it isn't too bad on cost - but any unexpected cost is > £0. The worst part is I only drive this car about 500 miles a year yet I still pay for everything. Poor me

Beepcake · 27 Mar 2006 at 12:33

pdw8 said:
Now even I know that she is crazy, I mean thats probably more than the car is worth.
Going back to my car, I'm waiting for the service manager to call me back as they have charged me about £100 for a oil sensor that should have been done under the extended warranty. It didnt even fix the problem, the low engine oil light is permanently on.

However, the serious issue is that on the invoice they advise that the front subframe is CRACKING and making a knocking noise and the rear anti roll bar is also knocking. They did not do this work but surely this will be covered under the warranty??

Suspension parts are quite often considered wear and tear items, certainly at high mileages. If you've just paid them a whack of money though you should be able to talk them into making it a warranty issue

burns · 27 Mar 2006 at 12:44

The most I've ever paid a garage was about £110 for a driveshaft change on my old 309 GL. Then I was kicking myself for not having done it mysef when I found the part was only about £40. I services my cars myself though, if I got all the work on my cars done by garages I would be a few grand down on my costs so far.