Car is not pulling like it should between 1k and 2k RPM - could it be water in the system?

snips86x · 13 Oct 2014 at 22:11

I've just been driving back from Heathrow in the rain and I got of at my junction to find the car wouldn't pull away as quick as it normally would, its like the turbo's not kicking in until after 2000rpm.

However, this behaviour is sporadic as I've just popped down to the shop and it would intermittently pull as I'd expect.

The intake is directly behind the grille and last time I stripped the top of the air box off, the inside of the pipe was damp.

Car is a 2002 Mk VI 1.4TDCi Fiesta.

Could this be caused by water in the system & how should I combat it?
After market filter on the front of the intake pipe?
Re-position the intake?

sigma · 13 Oct 2014 at 22:16

Difficult to diagnose over the 'net, could be a number of things. I would research common faults.

Could be a boost leak?

Tute · 13 Oct 2014 at 22:19

My first thought was boost leak also.

Are the revs increasing with the speed - i.e it's not the clutch slipping?

snips86x · 13 Oct 2014 at 22:22

sigma said:
Difficult to diagnose over the 'net, could be a number of things. I would research common faults.

Could be a boost leak?

Tute said:
My first thought was boost leak also.

Are the revs increasing with the speed - i.e it's not the clutch slipping?

The reason I thought it could be rain related as the last time this happened I had EAC Fail and since clearing the codes, its not come back - but the rain also hasn't been as heavy.

There is also a slight chug when putting my foot flat to the floor and yes, the speed is increasing with the revs!

Conscript · 13 Oct 2014 at 22:33

This sounds like the dreaded injector seal problem. Apparently a common problem with this car/engine. Causes chugging/misfiring from the engine, and often causes the car to go into limp home mode.

I recently helped my best friend fix this on his girlfriends 1.4 TDCi Fiesta...we managed to do it ourselves, but it's a bit of a pig of a job. Involves taking off the rocker cover, fuel filter and unclipping most associated pipework so you can get to the injectors, lift them out and replace the copper seals - but not before cleaning out all the tar that will have accumulated around them due t leaking diesel. In our case we had to undo it all over again because even after replacing the seal, the problem still wasn't fixed and it turned out one of the injectors needed replacing.

EDIT: Think this is the guide that my friend found which we used: http://www.talkford.com/community/t...r-copper-seals-on-a-fiesta-14-tdci-with-pics/

snips86x · 13 Oct 2014 at 22:55

Conscript said:
This sounds like the dreaded injector seal problem. Apparently a common problem with this car/engine. Causes chugging/misfiring from the engine, and often causes the car to go into limp home mode.

I recently helped my best friend fix this on his girlfriends 1.4 TDCi Fiesta...we managed to do it ourselves, but it's a bit of a pig of a job. Involves taking off the rocker cover, fuel filter and unclipping most associated pipework so you can get to the injectors, lift them out and replace the copper seals - but not before cleaning out all the tar that will have accumulated around them due t leaking diesel. In our case we had to undo it all over again because even after replacing the seal, the problem still wasn't fixed and it turned out one of the injectors needed replacing.

EDIT: Think this is the guide that my friend found which we used: http://www.talkford.com/community/t...r-copper-seals-on-a-fiesta-14-tdci-with-pics/

Thanks for your comment

The injector seals were done about 3 months ago and had been blowing for a very long time(Easily 3-4 years :eek:

). I'm not sure bad seals would cause it to go into limp mode as the limp mode never kicked in until the dreaded night of driving home in torrential rain!

They had to cut through 3-4 inches of carbon and yes, its a common issue with the 1.4 and 1.6 Peugeot engines.

B@Th*nG · 14 Oct 2014 at 10:47

sounds more like a MAF problem to me, unplug it and see if the situation improves. could well be water/dirt on the sensor if it's wet in the airbox - slow down when driving through puddles

ps. doing this will throw an error eventually, but it's cheap and easy diagnoses.

B@

Conscript · 14 Oct 2014 at 11:28

snips86x said:
Thanks for your comment

The injector seals were done about 3 months ago and had been blowing for a very long time(Easily 3-4 years ). I'm not sure bad seals would cause it to go into limp mode as the limp mode never kicked in until the dreaded night of driving home in torrential rain!

They had to cut through 3-4 inches of carbon and yes, its a common issue with the 1.4 and 1.6 Peugeot engines.

That's a relief then, if the seals have already been done.

It did cause limp home mode on my friend's Fiesta due to the compression loss, although to be honest, I think the injector had always been failing along with the seals - so we had to strip it down twice before the issue was fully resolved.

As above, maybe turn your attention to the MAF. If it does turn out to be the problem, a good spray clean with a can of electrical contact cleaner should sort it out. Best of luck!

B@Th*nG · 14 Oct 2014 at 13:26

Conscript said:
As above, maybe turn your attention to the MAF. If it does turn out to be the problem, a good spray clean with a can of electrical contact cleaner should sort it out. Best of luck!

it CAN sort it out, don't be surprised if it doesn't - they seem to have anywhere from 50k to 150k lifespan before being totally shot. If you do spray it then make sure it's stone cold, use 99.7%+ isopropyl alcohol (some boggo contact cleaner may not be sufficient) and ensure it's 100% dry before putting it back and starting it up.

With the MAF unplugged it might run a bit rough, but the majority of the power will be back IF the MAF is the problem.

B@

snips86x · 14 Oct 2014 at 13:38

Thanks for your help guys.

I've not done any extensive testing but its been on and off this morning and I cannot hear an y whistling from the boost pipe.

If I wanted to avoid water issues could I use an aftermarket filter? I dont make a habit or driving through puddles but the rain is not so easily avoid.

snips86x · 14 Oct 2014 at 15:20

B@Th*nG said:
it CAN sort it out, don't be surprised if it doesn't - they seem to have anywhere from 50k to 150k lifespan before being totally shot. If you do spray it then make sure it's stone cold, use 99.7%+ isopropyl alcohol (some boggo contact cleaner may not be sufficient) and ensure it's 100% dry before putting it back and starting it up.

With the MAF unplugged it might run a bit rough, but the majority of the power will be back IF the MAF is the problem.

B@

Wont this throw additional errors after some driving time?

atpbx · 14 Oct 2014 at 15:41

Is there any excess smoke?

B@Th*nG · 14 Oct 2014 at 15:45

snips86x said:
Wont this throw additional errors after some driving time?

yes, that's why I said it would in my first post :confused:

but it's just a diagnoses, not a fix. If the problem goes away with it unplugged it's the MAF, replace it or clean it and find where the water is getting in.

and what do you mean "additional" errors? are you getting errors currently?

snips86x said:
Thanks for your help guys.

I've not done any extensive testing but its been on and off this morning and I cannot hear an y whistling from the boost pipe.

If I wanted to avoid water issues could I use an aftermarket filter? I dont make a habit or driving through puddles but the rain is not so easily avoid.

An aftermarket filter would be worse I'd suggest if it really is water coming through the filter

B@

snips86x · 14 Oct 2014 at 17:04

atpbx said:
Is there any excess smoke?

I did check, but nothing. Tomorrow morning before I leave for work will give a good indication.

B@Th*nG said:
yes, that's why I said it would in my first post but it's just a diagnoses, not a fix. If the problem goes away with it unplugged it's the MAF, replace it or clean it and find where the water is getting in.

and what do you mean "additional" errors? are you getting errors currently?

An aftermarket filter would be worse I'd suggest if it really is water coming through the filter

B@

No, there are no additional errors, I just picked up on the fact removing it would cause a whole bunch of errors according to the Fiesta Forum.

B@Th*nG · 14 Oct 2014 at 17:24

snips86x said:
No, there are no additional errors, I just picked up on the fact removing it would cause a whole bunch of errors according to the Fiesta Forum.

it will do, ye

can you reset your own codes?

B@

snips86x · 14 Oct 2014 at 17:43

B@Th*nG said:
it will do, ye can you reset your own codes?

B@

No! I'm contemplating getting rid now as there are a few other things which may need addressing. Ive been advised the clutch is 85% worn

mattyg · 14 Oct 2014 at 17:51

If serviced correctly then the 1.4 will do 250k before major issues. Injectors normally go after about 120k. We've had turbos fail as early as 85k but that one also needed a replacement engine due to oil starvation. Not sure what killed what.

snips86x · 14 Oct 2014 at 18:15

mattyg said:
If serviced correctly then the 1.4 will do 250k before major issues. Injectors normally go after about 120k. We've had turbos fail as early as 85k but that one also needed a replacement engine due to oil starvation. Not sure what killed what.

Strangely enough, I was wondering what they'd do and did know one with 320k on the clock but its knowing when to stop spending money on a black hole.

B@Th*nG · 14 Oct 2014 at 19:17

snips86x said:
No! I'm contemplating getting rid now as there are a few other things which may need addressing. Ive been advised the clutch is 85% worn

urgh, why bother then

B@

snips86x · 14 Oct 2014 at 19:20

B@Th*nG said:
urgh, why bother then

B@

Because I'm also loathed to get rid for sentimental reasons and I'd like a quick fix for it!

Still think its the MAP sensor? I've found a few for £17 here and there and may get one cheaper at a scrappy!