Carabao Cup Final Man Utd v Newcastle ** Spoilers ** [26th February 2023]

[fez]

The money chat in here is interesting. FFP rules actually hamstring sides that don't already have huge commercial revenue and worldwide appeal. You can't spend unless you generate revenue, and you can't generate major revenue unless you're winning trophies and in the Champions League. Man Utd, Liverpool, and probably to an extent Arsenal just have a baked in advantage due to their global, historical appeal. Is that fair? It's probably better than the alternative of Man City\Newcastle just buying the league but it does mean if we're going to progress then it will be a much longer journey, with major investment in facilities, youth and commercial revenue streams required.

Its not fair no. I don't know what a fair way would be though as that horse has kind of bolted. The only things they could do to actually make it remotely fair would just absolutely kill the PL. The fact is, City have bought their success. United have tried and failed massively

At the end of the day, I don't know how bad it is when clubs spend silly money as the market is the market. If PSG want to spend a billion euros to not win the CL and win the domestic league then go for it.

It would almost be better if the likes of City didn't lie and cheat and were just open about how much they pay and spend. The smaller teams will have whatever money they have and the market will set the tranfer fees. Teams can only have so many players so if the very elite players end up at the same 5 clubs then so be it. The other 99.9% of players will still need to play somewhere and there will just be a slightly more extreme version of the current market.

Teams will sell their star players for silly money and then someone else will fleece them based on their new influx of money.

 

[Murf]

United\Liverpool\Arsenal can buy success legally though. They've just got such high commercial income due to recent and historic success, and their club brands. I don't begrudge them that if I'm honest. Man City breaking all of the rules to try and out spend them I think is disgraceful. But I understand why they did it. Man City will never be Man Utd commercially, at least not without a period of dominance that stretches for another decade. And they can't do that unless they break FFP.

With Newcastle, under the current rules we can do what Tottenham did and make huge improvements to St. James' Park or build a new stadium. We can build world class training facilities and an amazing youth facility. We can spend to the very limit of our current commercial success. But unless commercial revenues jump, we'll not be able to afford to retain Guimares, Joelinton, Botman etc. and we're always likely to have our best players taken by teams with significantly higher revenues.

But I honestly don't know what the solution is. It can't be an insane arms race of ever more wealthy owners. I'd potentially have a more even split of Premier League\TV rights income. Maybe just split evenly between the 20 teams irrespective of league position etc. That would leave the commercially succesful teams with a financial lead, but not one as big as it is today.

 

[fez]

United\Liverpool\Arsenal can buy success legally though. They've just got such high commercial income due to recent and historic success, and their club brands. I don't begrudge them that if I'm honest. Man City breaking all of the rules to try and out spend them I think is disgraceful. But I understand why they did it. Man City will never be Man Utd commercially, at least not without a period of dominance that stretches for another decade. And they can't do that unless they break FFP.

Its very much this. I would be interested to know how much City have actually grown their fanbase worldwide since their new owners came in because it seems like there are still very few City fans knocking around. I think inertia is very hard to fight and despite United being **** for over a decade, we are still gaining fans due to the historic pull, brand recognition and simply by existing fans recruiting either by spawning new ones or new markets.

With Newcastle, under the current rules we can do what Tottenham did and make huge improvements to St. James' Park or build a new stadium. We can build world class training facilities and an amazing youth facility. We can spend to the very limit of our current commercial success. But unless commercial revenues jump, we'll not be able to afford to retain Guimares, Joelinton, Botman etc. and we're always likely to have our best players taken by teams with significantly higher revenues.

In the current model, yes. You can build for years but all it will take is for all the top PL sides to have rich sugar daddies and you are unlikely to ever grow into top 4 regulars. United have spent massively under the Glazers and with proper recruitment and planning it would 100% have been United/City and Liverpool at the top. Then you have Chelsea who should be there. Then you would have 3-4 other teams fighting over the scraps.

But I honestly don't know what the solution is. It can't be an insane arms race of ever more wealthy owners. I'd potentially have a more even split of Premier League\TV rights income. Maybe just split evenly between the 20 teams irrespective of league position etc. That would leave the commercially succesful teams with a financial lead, but not one as big as it is today.

The issue with a more even split is it wouldn't do much more than inflate the whole market and perhaps knock off the top spending. You would have tiny teams coming into the PL and getting silly money which they would spend on mediocre players. The level of the PL would likely go down and we would be worse in Europe as a league.

Not sure what the solution is. I'm not sure there is a good one.

 

[Martynt74]

Its very much this. I would be interested to know how much City have actually grown their fanbase worldwide since their new owners came in because it seems like there are still very few City fans knocking around.

I think you only have to look at the FA cup thread from last night to see how few City fans there are.

Compare it to how many will post tonight and it’s very telling.

 

[Vandle]

Was just reading this.

Due to the aforesaid two appearances, Martin Dubravka is eligible to receive a winner's medal, but it's unclear whether he will be offered one - or accept it. Competition rules allow for 30 medals to be provided to the winning side, with any additional ones available to be purchased.

Imagine if he got one or worse, paid to get one. What a bizarre set of circumstances.