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Carrick Out?

- Ultimately, they have decided to see if Carrick and his staff can, with the players, resurrect their form, rather than make a change in the dugout.

So I would make the bold suggestion that they actually don't have any form to resurrect. Last season was a generational over-performance of results vs performance and we have never played well under Carrick for any amount of time. Like, I would argue that perhaps the odd game we played quite well and that was largely because the game suited a poorly coached side happy to hit on the break. There are no good spells to look back on and say "what were we doing right during that period". The answer to that question would be "we were scoring goals at a higher rate than expected and somehow the opposition were fluffing their chances. Oh and Bruno was in sublime form".

I’ll be astounded if he’s here after the international break, he’ll most likely be gone on Sunday morning.

Nah, at this point they have made their bed. They will lie in it. Everything screams that Carrick should be gone already and the club are clearly briefing that thats not happening. They will almost certainly wait until the international break now.

The mad thing is that if the rumours are true and coming out of Old Trafford, they have basically burned the bridges with the 3 best options for the management position. I mean, either they haven't been talking to these guys, they have already got one on board for taking over at the next international break or they are genuinely saying to them "we might want you to be our next manager but we want to give Carrick a few more games...we'll call you".

Whatever way you look at it, its a clown show.
 
I’m impressed you both seem to think he won’t be here post-break. I don’t have any faith that they know what they’re doing now. And even if it did happen then, it would have an air of ‘rushed decision’ or desperation about it, I bet.
 
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I don’t think they’ll have any choice. The worry is if we somehow scrape a couple of results, and then this farce drags on beyond the international break.
 
I don’t think they’ll have any choice. The worry is if we somehow scrape a couple of results, and then this farce drags on beyond the international break.

We've turned a corner!
 
I don't think Carrick is the right man long term, all these good coaches nowadays live and breathe the football with the players on the side of the pitch, he seems to be far too passive, caught in the headlights somewhat.
But i wouldn't see the hiring of Carrick as some massive failure really, considering the 2nd half of last season, you couldn't not give him the job.
It will be interesting to see how the players react after the Bournemouth game, it's quite unusual to see that, where Carrick was getting applause and as soon as he disappeared down the tunnel the players got an earful. I imagine the board have thought that is an opportunity to remind the players of the hierarchy. Its hard to know without being in it but maybe there has been this subliminal type of feeling in the UTD squad for many years that the players rule the place.
 
Howe for me.

We need a manager that can work with zero money. The only reason we were able to spend before was because of the injection from INEOS. Trying to finance a new stadium is just going to cripple us for years. What we should be doing is poaching the best minds from Brighton and Brentford and making the best of that. We as a club are still living in the dark ages.
The best minds from Brighton and Brentford aren’t for you. They’re good at buying prospects on low wages and it being a success if they stay in the PL and selling one or two each year for big money whilst buying another 5. Clubs who pay big wages and pay big fees can’t do that. It’s a different job.
 
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The Athletic article this morning (and there’s a survey too!) makes me laugh. Talk of the International break being better for a new manager to bed in. Not that the management have been caught with their pants down for the umpteenth time.
I think that's harsh. As I said before - 2 weeks ago it was a slow start with some mitigating factors. Now its a full blown crisis where the coach has to be replaced because the only thing that saves the season. I'm no apologist for Ineos or the Glazers, they are a curse but if you are suggesting that a club should be in a perpetual state of readiness to replace your coach. What sort of club do you want to be?
So I would make the bold suggestion that they actually don't have any form to resurrect. Last season was a generational over-performance of results vs performance and we have never played well under Carrick for any amount of time. Like, I would argue that perhaps the odd game we played quite well and that was largely because the game suited a poorly coached side happy to hit on the break. There are no good spells to look back on and say "what were we doing right during that period". The answer to that question would be "we were scoring goals at a higher rate than expected and somehow the opposition were fluffing their chances. Oh and Bruno was in sublime form".
I guess a lot of this comes down to how easy it is to instill a different game model, playstyle. Amorim who I rate as a far better coach than Carrick couldn't do it - even with 1 game a week. Ten Hag couldn't do it and gave up. I believe Carrick has tried to but its frustrated by several factors

1. His inexperience at this level
2. A weak transfer window because we are skint.
3. A Frankenstien squad assembled by 5 previous coaches
4. Injuries and the increased fixture list
5. The unrealistic expectations of fans and the media about where Man United should benchmark
6. A core of players who have seen this movie before and suffer from the trauma

Then you can have the argument that why change what worked. Well clearly its not sustainable or competitive with the best teams in the league or Europe. Change is painful but when you commit to it you have to give it a chance. I still think they should have stuck with Amorim but there is not enough evidence that the DoF and recruitment department are good enough to support a transition regardless of who the coach is.
 
I don't think Carrick is the right man long term, all these good coaches nowadays live and breathe the football with the players on the side of the pitch, he seems to be far too passive, caught in the headlights somewhat.

Its true that there are very few top coaches who aren't on the sidelines motivating, getting in players ears, making little tweaks, reminding players what they should be doing. Its all part of being a proactive and engaged manager. Games aren't played on the training pitch or through tactics that never need adjusting during the game.

But i wouldn't see the hiring of Carrick as some massive failure really, considering the 2nd half of last season, you couldn't not give him the job.

We could and I think most well run clubs wouldn't have given him the job. They would have looked at performances, the massive gulf between performances and results and the manner of those results ie. relying on both outperforming xG and the opposition doing the opposite

It will be interesting to see how the players react after the Bournemouth game, it's quite unusual to see that, where Carrick was getting applause and as soon as he disappeared down the tunnel the players got an earful. I imagine the board have thought that is an opportunity to remind the players of the hierarchy. Its hard to know without being in it but maybe there has been this subliminal type of feeling in the UTD squad for many years that the players rule the place.

I genuinely don't think thats the case like it was a few years ago. I think that the players have just been shocked by the level of management/coaching they are working under and Bruno has basically had enough and tried to force the clubs hand. Usually players just quiet quit.

The best minds from Brighton and Brentford aren’t for you. They’re good at buying prospects on low wages and it being a success if they stay in the PL and selling one or two each year for big money whilst buying another 5. Clubs who pay big wages and pay big fees can’t do that. It’s a different job.

The other thing to remember is that all these clubs are finishing broadly around mid-table. Now perhaps you can make the argument that if they weren't moving some of their best players on every season then they would be getting better and perhaps compete higher up the league but its not that simple. Your scouting team is no longer looking for under the radar gems or players to develop, they are not looking for players to improve on already good players. Players that cost a lot of money and want higher wages etc.

As much as people like to **** on the quality of United squads over the past however many years and whenever things are bad, people claim that the squad is awful and where it should be, we finish far higher on average than most teams in the league. We finish higher than Brighton almost every season despite people regularly saying their squad is great.
 
The best minds from Brighton and Brentford aren’t for you. They’re good at buying prospects on low wages and it being a success if they stay in the PL and selling one or two each year for big money whilst buying another 5. Clubs who pay big wages and pay big fees can’t do that. It’s a different job.

That is exactly what we did but in a different era. Class of 92 was exactly that. Just in a form of the late 80's/early 90's. Scouting all the young kids and bringing them through but instead of selling when they came good. We kept them and added the sprinkles on top.
 
I guess a lot of this comes down to how easy it is to instill a different game model, playstyle. Amorim who I rate as a far better coach than Carrick couldn't do it - even with 1 game a week. Ten Hag couldn't do it and gave up. I believe Carrick has tried to but its frustrated by several factors

Now I would argue that Amorim did instil it into the players but you can't make certain players into something they are not. He was missing key players in his system and was making do with probably half the squad being square pegs in round holes. They weren't perfect but they were trying to do as he asked and you could see that. He wasn't sacked because of results, he was sacked because he called out Wilcox and was more than happy to sabotage results to prove that his system was the be all and end all rather than being adaptive when instead of a team that wasn't quite where it needed to be, it was a team that was missing too many players to play his system.

Near the end he was missing: Fernandes, de Ligt, Maguire, Mount, Diallo, Mbuemo and Mazraoui due to injuries/afcon.

This team isn't uncoachable. Amorim was getting them to do what he wanted and that was with a system that didn't really suit our personnel. A more conventional manager who coaches these players would have a far easier time of things.
 
I think that's harsh. As I said before - 2 weeks ago it was a slow start with some mitigating factors. Now its a full blown crisis where the coach has to be replaced because the only thing that saves the season. I'm no apologist for Ineos or the Glazers, they are a curse but if you are suggesting that a club should be in a perpetual state of readiness to replace your coach. What sort of club do you want to be?
Based on the history since SAF, then they most definitely should always have a plan in place. Particularly if they’d been doing their jobs properly and had seen the drop off in performances the longer he was in place last season. I’d argue it’s not harsh enough. I get you’re trying to be a bit more sanguine / calm about the situation though! :)
 
So Carrick and Bruno have reportedly had face to face talk then...

Bruno didn't look like a happy boy on the bench at Bournemouth last week. Face like a smacked arse. He often has that face on the pitch as well but it was not a happy face.
 
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