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Case airflow question

Discussion in 'Overclocking & Cooling' started by Scougar, Feb 3, 2011.

  1. cameraheaven

    Associate

    Joined: Jan 15, 2011

    Posts: 48

    Location: Aussie near Highwycombe

    Lap cooler!....Lap CPU!..........grain of rice or X..........Ahhhhhhhh! Better now.

    If you temp is seriously that high the two metal faces have a serious problem through a "lack" of metallic contact that even "Vegemite" won't fix.

    Aussie Allan
     
  2. Scougar

    Capodecina

    Joined: Jan 30, 2007

    Posts: 12,071

    Location: PA, USA

    In case i didnt mention it, the push/pull fans on the cpu are CM Sickleflow 2000rpm units.
     
  3. cameraheaven

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    Joined: Jan 15, 2011

    Posts: 48

    Location: Aussie near Highwycombe

    If the side off the case temporary trick didn't make much of a change...........its not the temp in your case,...it's the metal to metal contact or the lack of it.
    A little trick!.......clean die face and cover with black "white board marker" wait till dry then use a really gentle single flat pass over a piece of high quality 60-80gsm paper on glass and inspect the print that's left..........repeat for sink block!

    Aussie Allan
     
  4. Scougar

    Capodecina

    Joined: Jan 30, 2007

    Posts: 12,071

    Location: PA, USA

    cameraheaven> The case off DID work, so I can assume most of the heat issues are airflow related. However, I'm not happy with the cpu cooler and I didn't properly clean off the CPU/HSF before the 2nd application as I was trying to stay quiet (baby/wife sleeping) and didn't have anything to hand at the time. I think the old paste, plus too much are too blame.

    The 'trick' you mention is common for car's and finding high spot's in bodywork.. so I know where your coming from.

    I will consider lapping the CPU and HSF, but first I want to try MX-4 before I do this.
     
  5. j.col

    Mobster

    Joined: May 31, 2010

    Posts: 4,010

    Location: Bedfordshire

    hi scougar, i will give my two pence worth as well ;)

    i have a Q6600 B3 (hotter than G0) at 3.1GHz on 1.29v and after 1 hour of prime. my temps are mid fifties, so you are defo running hot.

    i also used MX-4 but i used the grain of rice method, with a dot each side, so it looked like a +
    i put my Tuniq Tower on it and gave it a twist of about 90 degrees and back,
    imo this will help remove air bubbles.

    i have a 1 x 200mm intake fan at front of case.
    1 x 120mm exhaust fan on back of case.
    1 x 120mm exhaust fan on top of case (NZXT Hades)
    my cooler is 10mm from the rear exhaust, so its nearly a push/pull config.

    just swao the fans around, you will get it cool eventually
     
  6. cameraheaven

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    Joined: Jan 15, 2011

    Posts: 48

    Location: Aussie near Highwycombe

    Scougar!...you sound like you have a head on your shoulders and the path you stated sounds like the way to go......don't know about the configuration of your case but it would be a fix and not a band-aid if you could use a full rigid port for the CPU exhaust gases out the side of the case directly mounted on the CPU exhaust fan side via a cutout to the side of the case??? ... Just a thought!

    Aussie Allan
     
  7. Scougar

    Capodecina

    Joined: Jan 30, 2007

    Posts: 12,071

    Location: PA, USA

    Nice idea, but pretty sure I couldn't do that on this case as it's probably considered a midi-case. The only port I could use would be the rear fan area (due to big HSF), and then the rest of the heat would have nowhere to go from the case.

    I'm waiting on a friend to take out his Apache's so I'll give that a go, and reseat the HSF again using less paste and MX-4 if possible. Definately want the temps down, else how else for going further than 3.4Ghz lol.
     
  8. Scougar

    Capodecina

    Joined: Jan 30, 2007

    Posts: 12,071

    Location: PA, USA

    I am now (once I pay) waiting on the delivery of a Scythe Kama Bay 120mm, so that hopefully I will get a fresh air supply pretty much directly to the Heatsink fans. I'll try it, but I suspect I'll swap out the original fan for something else to increase airflow.

    If that doesn't help much, then I'll swap the front and rear fan's to try better airflow, until I get a 2nd apache.

    Something else I just thought of.. I may Cut out the original pressed grills as that may help with airflow. Just need to get something to replace the back grill. (The front is covered.)
     
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2011
  9. cameraheaven

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    Joined: Jan 15, 2011

    Posts: 48

    Location: Aussie near Highwycombe

    Scougar!

    The punched patterns in PC case production are lacking at best,...good move to cut them out and put on a wire light grill cover, this is one of several things I do on any new case.
    You should see at least a 50% jump in throw-flow using the same fans with this simple DIY and a lot quieter to boot!.... Karma bay will also make a big difference to your existing case temps. Just do one change at a time then test, then you'll know which one gives you the best bang for buck for next time.

    Another nice rule of thumb I use is no matter what CFM you have going through your case , try to have 20% more CFM feed over exhaust...eg 100CFM exhaust out of the back of the case and 125CFM feed in through the front !! Fan blade efficiency is far higher with positive pressures.

    Aussie Allan
     
  10. Scougar

    Capodecina

    Joined: Jan 30, 2007

    Posts: 12,071

    Location: PA, USA

    I'm pretty sure that with 2x 120mm fans on the front the intake will be greater than the exit :) Although once the GPU fan get's upto full speed things maybe different lol. I'm pretty certain it's just bad airflow to the CPU cooler now, as a heatpipe cooler with 2x 120mm fans on it should be doing a much better job.

    Will need to think of about a blow hole in the top as well, but will need a circular cutting for that,
     
  11. cameraheaven

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    Location: Aussie near Highwycombe

    You didn't say what or how many fans you have on ya cases butt to complement the two on the front !....do you have the option to rotate the intake of the tower cooler to face the front of the case, effectively aligning the air-flow front to back in-line, ??? this will give you the best, efficient flow......if you do put a hole in the top, blow hole is correct, ...hot air rises!

    If I haven't said it before,...there's some pretty "smick" hybrid coolers kicking around now that would suit your problem nicely, one is a sealed liquid metal cooler (Danamics LMX Liquid Metal cooler or the LM10) that bolts on just like your present set-up or a lovely new form factor that bolts on to the fan outlet internally of the case with leads (tubes) down to a block on the CPU...........Antec K├╝hler H2O 620

    Aussie Allan
     
  12. Scougar

    Capodecina

    Joined: Jan 30, 2007

    Posts: 12,071

    Location: PA, USA

    Hmm.. I'm thinking that there may actually be room in the front of the case for a 140mm case fan if I cut the front intake out a bit. Obviously it'll start adding cost up, but will mean I can swap the apache to the back anyway, and just get a 140mm fan for the front helping with positive air pressure.

    I'm also thinking about adding this http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=WC-034-PB (Phobya 240 radiator grill dual) to the top of my case instead of 'blow hole'. Mainly because I'm sure I can make a neater job with this rather than a a circular hole. Probably will leave it passive to vent to atmosphere rather than adding fans (for the moment). (Obviously this won't help positive pressure though eek! - So probably need some thoughts on it?)

    Also as mentioned, getting a very basic 120mm steel fan grill from OcUK for the rear fan to help temps.

    EDIT: Am thinking possibly an 140 air penetrator for the main air intake as the air has a fair distance to travel to motherboard/gpu's etc. Does anyone use one as an intake in a "regular" case and can comment on them as this function?
     
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2011
  13. cameraheaven

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    Location: Aussie near Highwycombe

    The phobya grill changes the whole ball game Scougar! But might yield results in a different way........"If" you decide to install the hex grill on top,... what about turning both front and rear fans to intake and let all exhaust exit through the top!! you'll even get a little boost with natural convection,...And yes a 140mm supply fan is a positive step as well

    Aussie Allan
     
  14. Scougar

    Capodecina

    Joined: Jan 30, 2007

    Posts: 12,071

    Location: PA, USA

    I suppose I could reverse the rear fan, is it a common thing people do?

    EDIT: Kama didn't turn up yesterday, so unable to try it out over the weekend. Will have to try next week to see if it helps the temps.

    UPDATE: The Phoyba dual grill turned up today from OcUK. A bit bent but should flatten out fine :) The rear wire grill also turned up so that's good news. A colleague has lent me a 140mm fan (broken), for fitment purposes to see if I can get the front of the case to take a 140mm fan. Still absolutely no idea how the heck I am going to cut anything out yet as I don't have a dremel lol.
     
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2011
  15. cameraheaven

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    Location: Aussie near Highwycombe

    Been away for a few days!

    Before the days of dremels,...the old method was to "peck-drill then file"..........Mark out your pattern with a fabric marker or similar,Mask off to protect the finish, then with a 3-4mm drill bit drill out inside the line so the holes almost overlap then break-out the piece to be removed.......rotary carbide burrs to rough off the worst of what's left and finish with small flat files then emery paper....needle files are excellent too for corners and such and can be picked up on flee-bay for a fiver!......you'd be amazed at what you can do with hand tools and patience .
    As far as .... "I could reverse the rear fan, is it a common thing people do?"....in short, no! ...but the principal is sound having a wopping great hole in the top of your case with plenty of CFPM being supplied into the case/box.........many cases in the past have incorporated this into there designs although never really utilized the feature . At the end of the day if you feel it doesn't work (I suspect it will!) you can always go back to the old push-pull front to rear but now you can put one or even two 120-140mm fans mounted under the top grill now!.........Now the question would be do I make them supply or exhaust???........Fun, isn't it!

    Aussie Allan
     
  16. Scougar

    Capodecina

    Joined: Jan 30, 2007

    Posts: 12,071

    Location: PA, USA

    A neighbour said I can use his jigsaw (Apparently ok for metal), to cut the hole I need :) So will do that all being well!

    The Scythe Kama Bay came today so will be trying that out as well, although I expect to replace the quiet fan with something better CFM wise, or maybe even a penetrator.
     
  17. cameraheaven

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    Joined: Jan 15, 2011

    Posts: 48

    Location: Aussie near Highwycombe

    Make sure you have the right blades and speed for the job!

    Penetrators are designed for placing air on a given point better the a standard fan....not for delivering high volumes of air ... that's the trade off.

    Aussie Allan
     
  18. OLDPHART

    Soldato

    Joined: Jun 19, 2004

    Posts: 6,502

    Location: n/east-the toon

    Hi, I'm afraid you have it all wrong, the penetrator can deliver upto about 130cfm at 1200rpm, l have the standard 180mm fans 110cfm at 700rpm > FTO1 case.

    Penetrator -
    Fan Diameter: 180mm
    Fan Depth: 32 mm
    Fan Speed: 700 - 1200 rpm
    >>>> Airflow: 80 - 130 CFM <<<<
    Sound Level: 18 - 34 dB
     
  19. GoogalyMoogaly

    Soldato

    Joined: Aug 29, 2010

    Posts: 6,837

    Location: Cornwall

    But the 120mm versions (which I believe is what Scougar would probably get) only seem to deliver 35.36 CFM @ 1500rpm.

    However the 140mm versions seem to deliver 64.34 CFM @ 1500rpm.

    So you're both right, sorta :)
     
  20. OLDPHART

    Soldato

    Joined: Jun 19, 2004

    Posts: 6,502

    Location: n/east-the toon

    Bit strange they can design a good extra large fan 180mm, but when it comes to 120 its got poor performance. if your going to mod your case how about a 180mm penetrator in the side panel blasting onto the mobo, got a 180mm chrome fan grill going spare.