Change.org petition to add an option to disable power saving in GPU settings

[sammarbella]

I started a new change.org petition.

Title:

AMD add an option in GPU settings to disable the new power saving to recover performance

Description:

The mandatory power saving feature introduced in the new Crimson drivers decrease performance and introduce instability in the gaming experience and multimedia playback.

An user option to disable it in GPU settings GUI could solve the problem for users who prefer performance over power saving.

Link:

https://www.change.org/p/radeon-tec...e-the-new-power-saving-to-recover-performance

Originally posted and more info in Guru3D initial thread: (updating OP)

http://forums.guru3d.com/showthread.php?t=406100

Edit: (spreading the petition in other forums)

Overclock.net

leshcatlabs.net

reddit.com

Overclockers.com

 

[sammarbella]

which option are you refering to ?
the idle state of gpu or frame target ?
maybe would be usefull giving more information

Since Crimson driver the GPU driver downclock GPU timings at any moment to save the maximum power at the expense of performance in games or multimedia playback.

There is no way to disable that behavior in AMD GPU settings, 3rd party tools like ClockBlocker or AfterBurner are needed to lock GPU timmings to avoid that performance loss.

AFIK Nvidia drivers has a simple "performance mode" to prevent that.

 

[sammarbella]

never happened to me, maybe it's Fury thing like dygaza said

There are contradictory reports, some Fury (X) owners say they dont' suffer this problem but ClockBlocker tool was originally created to solve power management in Fury series GPUs and it's now widely used to prevent downclocking in AMD GPUs:

ClockBlocker (profiled AMD power-management control)

ClockBlocker is a GPU power-management control software designed for AMD graphics cards. It started as a tool entirely designed for the Radeon R9 Fury series, yet many people have had success with the tool on a whole slew of different graphics hardware. While there may be other tools that already work on your hardware to stop downclocking, this is potentially another option available to you.

http://forums.guru3d.com/showthread.php?t=404465

 

[sammarbella]

"Change.org"
pointless.

Reporting privately to AMD is even more pointless.

Never underestimate public exposition factor.

 

[sammarbella]

What does it actually affect?

Performance.

GPU timings are downclocked at the worst imaginable time in order to increase power saving affecting FPS and smoothness of gaming and multimedia playback without option to disable that behavior in GPU GUI settings.

Third party tools like ClockBlocker (AKA viagra for AMD GPUs ) and Afterburner are used to prevent that.

 

[sammarbella]

From an overclocking perspective i wouldn't mind this feature, though i don't think it's required for regular users. Nonetheless, I'll ensure this reaches the right people within AMD.

Thanks for replying, i really appreciate it.

I always thought the main reason to buy a dedicated gaming GPU that costs 300-700 euros is to have the best performance playing PC games, not to save a few cents/dollars in the next power bill.

Maybe there are people who buy a Fury X only to play Tetris HD but i guess there are eccentric people everywhere.

The option i would like to see added to Crimson settings is not connected to overclocking:

The goal is to have an option to choice full GPU performance (no downclocking, overclocking) or power saving without the use of third party tools like ClockBlocker or AfterBurner.

Normally a regular customer buying a "Ferrari" don't expect it to be delivered stuck in ECO mode forcing him to hack his way to be able to use it in the normal "PERFORMANCE" mode in this type of cars.

An option to toggle between normal mode (adaptive power saving) and performance mode (maximum performance) could be the best solution to let the customer decide what he/she wants globally or per application (in app profile).

 

[sammarbella]

Reached an AMD employee without all this silly petition nonsense - job done.

Done?No.

Maybe medium rare.



The goal is not to reach an AMD employee, it's to be able to avoid downclocking in AMD GPUs without the use of 3rd party tools.

That will be "done" when a driver allowing this will be released, not before.

 

[sammarbella]

How do I check if this affects me? Something like 3DMark would show it up?

Leave AfterBurner started on the background monitoring GPU timings while you play games.

You can also look at the AB OSD while playing but this OSD can disrupt in some cases with gaming performance so the background moitoring is the best option.

GPU-Z can also monitor GPU timings in the background if you let it open in the "sensors" tab while gaming.

Both AB and GPU-Z have an option to log to file their monitoring data.

 

[sammarbella]

What went wrong? Powertune "forgot" to increase clocks, when more power is needed. This doesn't happen always, and is quite hard to find a real reason why it doesn't work same way always.

But overall, it's nice feature, when it works properly.

Well there is not "forgot" in here.

This process (downclocking to power save) is not instant, there is always a delay between low power state/timing and the recovery of high power state/timing and performance delivery.

The problem with an aggressive power saving feature like this and real time gaming is it downclocks the timing (and voltage) as soon as it detects GPU usage is under a threshold (% and/or time?) and only raises back AFTER it detects GPU usage is over that threshold again.

If this process occurs once each 10 minutes, i.e only when a game script launch a cutscene there is no much trouble but if this process occur very often, even a few times per second, it's a complete mess for performance (FPS) and stability (sustained frametimes).

The best scenario is a single GPU without V-sync or framelimiter and not CPU and/or DX11 bottlenecked.

In a multicard scenario the problem is way worst even without limiting factor like V-sync or framelimiter.In this case a higher resolution helps a lot to sustain a GPU usage and high power state.

Signed.
I'm an Nvidia user at the minute but freedom of application is important, and there's no reason I won't go AMD in the future.

Why anyone is slating the OP I do not know, he had a problem, he voiced it and has attempted to take further steps to achieve change.

People are so quick to condemn sometimes, does it make them feel big I wonder?

For me it's also about freedom of choice and the inconvenience to be forced to use 3rd party tools to get the GPU performance was abe to deliver without them before Crimson (November 2015).

My 290X Lighning CFX works pretty right now with AfterBurner locking timings and forcing constant voltage when AMD drivers provide a predifined and working CFX because since 16.1 there is no way to modify CFX profiles or enable them globally.

It could be nice to turn maximum performance mode on right in drivers like nvidia users do since ages.

Yup, i can't use any of the Crimsons because of it, cores are just up and down, up and down constantly, going as low as 350, making my frames plummet, don 't have any problems with pre-Crimsons, cores go to 1040, and stay there, its ridiculous, as i said before, they should have left the drivers alone, and just updated the CCC, as they were fine, now they've ****** em right up, theres loads of problems with them, this bouncing clock issue is just one of them.

You defined this MONTHS old problem very well.

 

[sammarbella]

Maybe its ur windows power saving options?

Well, it's a legit question after all.There are a lot of ppl around and some felt lost when the charms bar disappeared in Win 10 and needed a guide to operate without them.



Seriously.

I own computers since 1984/85, believe me i know how to disable power saving in OS and PC hardware.

Any form of power saving is banned from my PC: Monitor turns off ONLY manually, hardisks don't shut after...., WIFI/USB/BT don't save power or suspend by themselves , PC don't sleep, CPU don't throttle, all power saving options are off and minimum/maximum CPU is 100%/100%.

No, it's not my windows power saving settings who is forcing AMD Crimson drivers to save power at the performance expense.

AMD try to do it by himself but i avoid it locking GPU timings and voltage using AfterBurner.

The only moment my PC is saving power is when it's off.

 

[sammarbella]

Hi Everyone,

Just wanted to give you a quick update from Terry Makedon.

There is no need for a petition, this is something we're already working on and will release in a future Radeon Software update.

You can follow Terry on Twitter @catalystmaker.

Thanks for the update.

The Petition will follow active until words are backed by facts in a undetermined future.

 

[sammarbella]

Have a word with yourself.

Like De Niro in "Taxi driver"?

"Are you talking to me?"

Sorry.I'm not crazy enough.

Getting closer to AMD's market share!

Ouch!

You could hurt some sensitive people feelings.

 

[sammarbella]

Think what you want. My comment is made because, despite the fact the change.org petition was a little misguided, an AMD rep forwarded on the concerns. A reply was made stating "Don't worry about petitioning, we are already working on just that!"

To paraphrase, the response was "Well, I don't believe you. So I am keeping the petition open and running"

The OP got a response far above and beyond what was reasonably expected out of a change.org petition with 80 signatures. The reply to that was pathetic.

So yes, the OP needs a word with himself.

Pathetic?

Is not that the definition of blind faith beyond any reasonable doubt?

This is not a religion, it's a GPU customer petition to a GPU maker and two GPU maker PR replies.

Just in case you didn't see it.There are no "Prophets" in here.

AMDMatt is a respected forum member and an AMD PR who does a good job with education and politness.I RESPECT THAT BUT THAT'S ALL.

Maybe for you AMDMatt comments come right from "God" and we all need to kneel...NOW!

Well you are free to do it if you like.



The fact AMD acknowledge a problem doesn't solve a problem.

Words are simply that, words and PR words are simply...PR words.

If you want to believe in "words", good for you, personally and based on previous promises and lies coming directly from AMD or AMD PRs i only believe in FACTS.

I'm not a follower or believer in a strange AMD religion in which there are dogmas and axioms everybody must obey with blind faith so i don't think a comment from a PR is a message to human race directly from Heaven.

You can keep the "word" and "words" and even the "Verb" ALL for yourself and your own private faith time in the case you believe in some religion what i greatly respect even if i don't share it.

 

[sammarbella]

Joins up and spouts utter dross, quick way to ignore list. Did not even your post beyond the first few lines.

That says a lot about yourself.

I'll miss your replies trying to "help".

 

[sammarbella]

Sounds like the 3.5GB/4GB 'issue' with Nvidia. Are AMD downclocking speeds to save power ?

Nothing in common with Nvidia last 0.5 GB VRAM speed affair.Nvidia problem is mainly a hardware thing.

Basically is like you said, since Crimson drivers (November 2015) AMD introduced a more aggresive AND MANDATORY power saving behavior who downclocks GPU at any moment to save power at performance cost.

The only solution right is force GPU clocks and timings via 3rd party tools like ClockBlocker (!) and or AfterBurner.

 

[sammarbella]

Afterburner didn't work for me, was still going up and down, up and down.

Did you open OverDrive in Crimson settings?

If you did, even if you didn't change any settings inside THAT'S the problem.

The only solution is to uninstall drivers and reinstall them and for the God sake...DON'T TOUCH OVERDRIVE ANYMORE!!!



Then AfterBurner will have success locking GPU clocks and timings.

 

[sammarbella]

Did AMD tell people they were doing that ? Cause thats not done by accident.

Obviously it was not done by accident.

There was no public statement about this new aggresively enforced power saving behavior.

There is a clear shift in AMD GPU top priority from performance to power saving.

I guess this new "green" policy is set to fight the AMD GPUs image as power hungry and high heat hardware generators.

All the marketing around the next AMD GPU arch (ads and PR shows) expose it as a power saving hardware marvel and no word is still said about performance.

It's fine but ppl normally buy dedicated GPUs for their performance not to power saving.

An option to choice between performance and power saving should be the best solution for customers and AMD image as "green" brand.

 

[sammarbella]

It's a bug effecting some user configuration nothing more.. Not all users are effected, so therefore it wasn't amd intension for this.

It's not a bug, it works perfectly for his intended purpose: FORCE power saving at any cost (performance).

Ofc it doesn't affect all user setups, only the users who play games and playback multimedia content are affected.



Users who only use desktop 2D softwares like office or software who only requieres high CPU usage are not affected, the usual lower 2D power state of GPU clocks and voltage is fine for them.

I have nothing against the power saving per se i only ask an option to avoid it when performance must be the furst priority if customer choose it.

I don't like to be FORCED to poer save at all cost without drivers option.

 

[sammarbella]

Yes it is, that's why it's in the known issues of our latest Crimson 16.2 release notes. We're going to fix it.

And also in the 16.2.1 Crimson drivers released TODAY:

Known Issues

Core clocks may not maintain sustained clock speeds resulting in choppy performance and or screen corruption

http://support.amd.com/en-us/kb-articles/Pages/AMD_Radeon_Software_Crimson_Edition_16.2.1.aspx

That's why i think aknowledgement of a problem means nothing if the next drivers "solution" is to include it again under "know issues" in changelog.

Still waiting for a "a future Radeon Software update".

Maybe next driver? Who knows?

Ofc the use a pre-Crimson driver "solves" the problem introduced in Crimson drivers.

 

[sammarbella]

Now things are getting totally out of control. Now even releases of crossfire profiles are getting fail comments?

As crossfire user i always welcome working CFX profiles.

AFIK the only difference in this new minor release (16.2.1) is the addition of Far Cry Primal CFX profile.

I think it's good for AMD customers to have game support since launch day.

Speaking of CFX profiles, a completely bug-free Fallout 4 CFX profile is still a dream:

Known Issues

Cannot enable AMD Crossfire with some dual GPU AMD Radeon HD 59xx and HD 79xx series products
Fallout 4 - In game stutter may be experienced if the game is launched with AMD Crossfire enabled

The usual solution for CFX problems is still the same: disable it!