Check-in suspended at £4.3bn T5

scorza · 27 Mar 2008 at 19:28

A disgraceful shambles. The government should launch an immediate inquiry as to what has gone wrong and call for the sacking of whoever is in charge at BAA. No wonder we're the laughing stock of the world :mad:

No-one expected today to go perfectly for T5, but for passengers to be told that they can only check in with hand luggage only on the same day it opened is ridiculous :rolleyes:

jhmaeng · 27 Mar 2008 at 19:30

To be perfectly frank, compared to something like the Wembley Stadium which was just a complete and utter joke, I'm amazed that T5 has reached this stage without similarly serious delays or massive budget over-runs. (Especially when considering the much simpler nature of the project, not having to move the massive airport operation over from the previous terminals completely overnight etc)

I'm hoping that things will settle down in a couple of days and people start being able to genuinely enjoy the experience. I was there for the trials and, although the terminal resembles a shopping mall a little too much, overall it's such a huge improvement over the hideous terminals such as Terminal 4 (yuck!).

scorza · 27 Mar 2008 at 19:30

malc30 said:
Because the biggest test the system has run is 12000 bags. Nothing tests a system like a real life scenario.

It's not just the baggage handling thats gone FUBAR. Apparently of the 18 passenger lifts in the terminal only one is working.

JRS · 27 Mar 2008 at 19:31

malc30 - if I was to send work or equipment out that hadn't been tested to the same degree as a real world situation, I'd have my rear end handed to me on a silver platter. I'm sorry if this means I have little patience when other people/companies don't have quite the same diligence about horrendously expensive systems.

Testing should be just that - test it until you're satisfied that it actually works. Not do a quick bit of testing, convince yourself that it'll all run smoothly when faced with a heavier load and trust it to luck that nothing goes horribly wrong.

Moredhel · 27 Mar 2008 at 19:41

Jokester said:
They should have tested it with the expected required throughput, however much it is.

Using real-life passengers as guinea pigs like this is shocking. If I handed over a system to a client and it failed on day 1 because it hadn't been fully tested, I would be expected to have to bend over.

There really is no way of testing the kind of throughput an airport like Heathrow gets...

Raymond Lin · 27 Mar 2008 at 19:41

Surely "Teething problems" is like baggage delays, or flight delays due to the slowness of the baggage. Not "the computer can't handle it at all, we are shutting shop and you can all go home." That to me is not teething problems, that is a complete break down of the so called "State of the Art" system.

4T5 · 27 Mar 2008 at 19:43

@ JRS.
I feel exactly the same as you in just about every service situation except this one, As previously stated this system is Pure Genius of Epic scale & will never run perfctly until it has been in service a week or two.

@scorza.
Now that mate is totally unnaceptable, They are not even special lifts are they ? Normal services & systems should work Flawlessly from day one.

Andri · 27 Mar 2008 at 19:49

there is no way you can test going live, not on a scale like this.
and i really doubt they had a single crash then thought "ok thats it lads... lets call it a day"
it is a major issue that should have been picked up... but these things do sometimes slip past the nets.
if they can't get the system working then I'm sure whoever designed it will be to blame. but until then I'll give them the benefit of the doubt.

Jokester · 27 Mar 2008 at 19:57

Moredhel said:
There really is no way of testing the kind of throughput an airport like Heathrow gets...

Of course there is, you get get as many people as it takes to turn up on one day and throw people and their baggage at the system. Whether it's the friends and family of the contractor and BA or students or who ever that do it for a fee or a free flight or whatever, it can be done, and it will be significantly cheaper than the costs that BA or the contractor will now likely face to sort the mess out.

"They have been doing tests on the belt system for the last few weeks and knew it wasn't going right. The computer cannot cope with the number of bags going through."

What is more worrying is if that is true, they even knew it wasn't fit for purpose.

This is supposed to be a world class airport.

JRS · 27 Mar 2008 at 20:06

Jokester said:
What is more worrying is if that is true, they even knew it wasn't fit for purpose.

Worrying?

'Distinctly unsurprising', more like. They'll have been told over and over again by some poor sod that they would need to take the time to get it right, and he/she will have been over-ruled because that would have cost them more in the short term. Seen it and heard about it a thousand or so times before. I've given up being surprised by it.

I hope it costs an absolute fortune to sort out. Maybe then they'll twig that they might just have gone about this the wrong way.

Stan_Lite · 27 Mar 2008 at 20:10

I'm kinda with Malc on this one - I think too many people were just willing this to happen and there will be a lot of people with smug "I told you it wouldn't work" expressions on their faces. Give it some time and I'm sure they'll iron out the niggles.
Too often these days people are too quick to condemn when something goes wrong. If a football team loses three games in a row, the manager is instantly sacked. If an MP knobs his secretary on top of the desk, he's unfit to do the job and has to go - even if he's the best politician in history. If the luggage belt at the new terminal doesn't work we need a public enquiry and people need sacking.

Having said all that, I now fly to Egypt for work with KLM via Amsterdam and get a car from Cairo to Alexandria rather than fly with BA direct to Alexandria via Heathrow. I told my boss I didn't want to fly with BA through Heathrow any more after they had misplaced my luggage for the fourth time in 12 months. BA are the worst airline in the world for baggage and Heathrow is the worst airport in the world for baggage. Put the two together and you have a recipe for disaster.

SB118 · 27 Mar 2008 at 20:15

JRS said:
Testing should be just that - test it until you're satisfied that it actually works. Not do a quick bit of testing, convince yourself that it'll all run smoothly when faced with a heavier load and trust it to luck that nothing goes horribly wrong.

ye gods man, won't somebody think of the profit margins! :eek:

JRS · 27 Mar 2008 at 20:18

Bigstan said:
I'm kinda with Malc on this one - I think too many people were just willing this to happen and there will be a lot of people with smug "I told you it wouldn't work" expressions on their faces. Give it some time and I'm sure they'll iron out the niggles.

If this was just "niggles", I wouldn't be complaining. But these are not "niggles" - this is a near-complete breakdown of a system that obviously wasn't tested rigorously enough

SB118 said:
ye gods man, won't somebody think of the profit margins!

Heh. Still, I wonder what it'll cost them to sort it now, as opposed to doing it right in the first place?

Jimbeam3678 · 27 Mar 2008 at 20:19

My sister is stuck there as we speak, well now she's waiting at T2 on standby for another flight.

she ain't happy :eek:

Berserker · 27 Mar 2008 at 20:19

I'm also with Malc on this. With all due respect to those who say they should have tested it - well, they did. It was all fake of course and pre-planned. And therein lies the problem - however much you think you've tested something, you can bet that letting the general populous loose on it will break it - people just don't behave the way you expect. And of course, there's good ole Murphy to contend with - the bane of the software industry to be sure.

PS - I've worked in the software industry for 15 years plus, and while we've certainly had our successes, we've also had to bend over and take it. All good things come to those who wait.

FreeStream · 27 Mar 2008 at 20:21

Thing is, if it IS too little computer capacity, will it just mean some boffins spending the night putting in a few more wires/sensors/CPUs to help or does this mean BAA are in the **** cos it will take weeks or months to sort?

Not totally BAs fault. Maybe getting the staff accustomed better might have helped!

Bes · 27 Mar 2008 at 20:32

Jokester said:
Only place that I've been to that comes remotely close to Heathrow is Madrid.

True in terms of oldness, but I have flown out of Madrid Barajas about 25 times in the past year, and it's never been anywhere near as crowded for me

Berserker · 27 Mar 2008 at 20:36

I forgot to mention that Jokester is getting his wish - at least in part.

T2 is scheduled to be attacked by something big and yellow.

Duke · 27 Mar 2008 at 20:38

I can't wait for the Olympics..

JRS · 27 Mar 2008 at 20:45

Berserker said:
T2 is scheduled to be attacked by something big and yellow.

What, Big Bird?

Duke said:
I can't wait for the Olympics..

Yes, that does bear all the hallmarks of something that could be an unmitigated disaster....

Check-in suspended at £4.3bn T5

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