Associate
I'm all for interesting races, but the situation with the tyres has gotten out of hand now. Glad to know they're changing them.
Chinese Grand Prix 2013, Shanghai - Race 3/19
- Thread starter Duke
- Start date
Soldato
5 place grid penalty for Gutierrez next race for his Schumacher impression 
I thought all they had done in the first place was shift all the tyres along a grade anyway?
Have to say today was a sad race... Formula 1 was known to be the pinnacle of pushing the envelope of motorsport. Despite Alonso winning which I am happy about of course 
Todays race was pushing the pinnacle of Motoeconomy.
Todays race was pushing the pinnacle of Motoeconomy.
Caporegime
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- 18 Oct 2002
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One real thing they should do is maybe open it up to have 3 tyre choices, that way say a Merc could use the hard and medium, or hard and soft, and pit less often while a Lotus might be able to do softs and mediums, but need to do an extra pitstop.
Thing is, people aren't doing enough with strategy, the question is over 5 laps how much time did Vettel gain, how much could he have gained over 10 laps if they didn't drop off. Could Hamilton have done his two medium stints 3-4 laps shorter, slightly faster, then also done a stupid fast final stint on the softs. I said before the race, different cars are finding different races align perfectly with a strategy, at Aussie the Lotus ran the strategy for optimum lap time and pace. Another race the car isn't quite fast enough to make a 3 stop work and a 2 stop is too hard for the tyres.
For me if you have two tyres, there has to be a strategic benefit to choosing to do a shorter run on the softer tyre. The softs need to be 2 seconds a lap faster over 10 laps, and give the drivers an option of trying to change the strategy.
I think Merc need to think about pushing harder and doing an extra stop and making use of a faster tyre, because currently their tyre wear is going to make winning very very difficult. UNfortunately I think also that the better strategy for the Merc is qualifying on the medium. They have the worst tyre wear, which is worse stuck in traffic, so they have to be doing stints that mean they pit late enough that they drop back ahead of the pack, not back in 13-14th as they did.
Maybe the three tyre choice would mean Merc could qualify on the soft, then do two hard tyre stints, maybe that would work great.
You've got to think that Vettel/Hamilton with the ultimate pace of their cars, even on mediums could have qualified 4-5th, and done really well in the race. What I really don't like is that the winner of a particular track is almost determined by how a car does with a particular tyre(which is essentially a random choice, nothing stopping Pirelli chosing the medium and hard this race, which might have changed the top 5 completely). More tyre choice would give more different strategies for one thing, so teams have a little less idea what the others might switch to, and a little more option for changing the strategy.
Say you get stuck in traffic after 30 laps with 25 laps to go, you screw yourself pitting, because the softs won't last, you won't have two sets of softs left, and the mediums won't last. But if you had the hards, switching to do a long last stint is a real option, which currently they don't have. At other races you get stuck on the hard tyre, you decide to switch and do a soft then a medium stint instead.
Thing is, people aren't doing enough with strategy, the question is over 5 laps how much time did Vettel gain, how much could he have gained over 10 laps if they didn't drop off. Could Hamilton have done his two medium stints 3-4 laps shorter, slightly faster, then also done a stupid fast final stint on the softs. I said before the race, different cars are finding different races align perfectly with a strategy, at Aussie the Lotus ran the strategy for optimum lap time and pace. Another race the car isn't quite fast enough to make a 3 stop work and a 2 stop is too hard for the tyres.
For me if you have two tyres, there has to be a strategic benefit to choosing to do a shorter run on the softer tyre. The softs need to be 2 seconds a lap faster over 10 laps, and give the drivers an option of trying to change the strategy.
I think Merc need to think about pushing harder and doing an extra stop and making use of a faster tyre, because currently their tyre wear is going to make winning very very difficult. UNfortunately I think also that the better strategy for the Merc is qualifying on the medium. They have the worst tyre wear, which is worse stuck in traffic, so they have to be doing stints that mean they pit late enough that they drop back ahead of the pack, not back in 13-14th as they did.
Maybe the three tyre choice would mean Merc could qualify on the soft, then do two hard tyre stints, maybe that would work great.
You've got to think that Vettel/Hamilton with the ultimate pace of their cars, even on mediums could have qualified 4-5th, and done really well in the race. What I really don't like is that the winner of a particular track is almost determined by how a car does with a particular tyre(which is essentially a random choice, nothing stopping Pirelli chosing the medium and hard this race, which might have changed the top 5 completely). More tyre choice would give more different strategies for one thing, so teams have a little less idea what the others might switch to, and a little more option for changing the strategy.
Say you get stuck in traffic after 30 laps with 25 laps to go, you screw yourself pitting, because the softs won't last, you won't have two sets of softs left, and the mediums won't last. But if you had the hards, switching to do a long last stint is a real option, which currently they don't have. At other races you get stuck on the hard tyre, you decide to switch and do a soft then a medium stint instead.
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Associate
I think they changed the construction of the tyre too, so they are a different compound from last year. They have more initial grip than last year but the drop off is more severe.
Soldato
I hope the others who used the DRS get a place drop here and not at the next race.
Associate
Ej seems so not interested and just rude today.
Caporegime
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Is webber punishment for DRS usage, or for being a danger on the track with the tyre/speed as he limped around? The latter I would agree with, he could have wiped out someone elses race, and Alonso could have done the same last race by leaving crap all over the track when he had every option to come in and prevent that happening.
Stewards have been an entire joke this week, Sky guys thought Perez should be punished, I can't possibly understand how he wasn't, it was awful driving, he put someone off the track, and its once again a case as like the last couple years where the punishment seems to be partially determined on how badly damaged the other car gets rather than what the driver actually did. If Kimi goes on or is forced to stop, Perez did the same thing either way. DRS guys should all get a time penalty today basically.
Stewards have been an entire joke this week, Sky guys thought Perez should be punished, I can't possibly understand how he wasn't, it was awful driving, he put someone off the track, and its once again a case as like the last couple years where the punishment seems to be partially determined on how badly damaged the other car gets rather than what the driver actually did. If Kimi goes on or is forced to stop, Perez did the same thing either way. DRS guys should all get a time penalty today basically.
For taking Vergne out of the race.
A grid drop is a penalty. But I don't think the number is fixed. It is for gearbox and engine changes, but for punishments its open.
Soldato
Webber's weekend just keeps on getting better.
Caporegime
- Joined
- 18 Oct 2002
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- 33,188
Stewards really are a joke, not sure why there was so much DRS usage under yellows anyway, is this another case of the system still isn't working? How can the drs system work for a couple years and be unavailable for the first two(maybe more?) races of this season.
The thing is some guys in the race will I would assume, have held up guys throughout the race, ruining their tyres, where if they got a drive through during the race, would have been moved out the way. Ok Hamilton was never going to catch Alonso, but if Kimi had a penalty, would Hamilton have had better tyres by the end and Vettel wouldn't have gotten close.... I'm not saying Kimi did it, just if he did, this is the kind of thing where, punishment after the race, when they can do it during the race, makes it a joke as it can completely change the outcome of the race for other drivers.
Unless an incident is a black flag offence, or in the last say 5 or 10 laps, it should be dealt with during the race, I can't see any reason to wait, but again I can't see how its remotely possible to not punish Perez.
hamilton tries to overtake, Massa/Maldo keep smashing him off the track, Hamilton gets punished, they change the rule to be a bit more fair for guys making a fair move, then they just ignore it and punish no one Laughable. I can't see how Perez can be seen as doing anything other than shoving someone off the track, there is a clear as day rule that says you can't do this at all... but they've ignored it, the situation is black and white, he broke the rule, they decided to ignore the rules... whats the point.
The thing is some guys in the race will I would assume, have held up guys throughout the race, ruining their tyres, where if they got a drive through during the race, would have been moved out the way. Ok Hamilton was never going to catch Alonso, but if Kimi had a penalty, would Hamilton have had better tyres by the end and Vettel wouldn't have gotten close.... I'm not saying Kimi did it, just if he did, this is the kind of thing where, punishment after the race, when they can do it during the race, makes it a joke as it can completely change the outcome of the race for other drivers.
Unless an incident is a black flag offence, or in the last say 5 or 10 laps, it should be dealt with during the race, I can't see any reason to wait, but again I can't see how its remotely possible to not punish Perez.
hamilton tries to overtake, Massa/Maldo keep smashing him off the track, Hamilton gets punished, they change the rule to be a bit more fair for guys making a fair move, then they just ignore it and punish no one
Laughable. I can't see how Perez can be seen as doing anything other than shoving someone off the track, there is a clear as day rule that says you can't do this at all... but they've ignored it, the situation is black and white, he broke the rule, they decided to ignore the rules... whats the point.