Chinese Levers

Dogbreath · 15 Sep 2013 at 14:25

MouseMat2004 said:
If you're happy on wasting money on the brand name (you maybe the kind of person who spends £1200 on a Macbook Pro to use Facebook ) but trust me, these ones are just as good.

It's pretty obvious to me that they aren't just as good. Loads of people have found the anodising fades very quickly in sunlight, and more worryingly that have been quite a few instances of poor tolerances meaning that the lever will not allow the master cylinder to fully return, causing the brakes to bind and eventually lock on as they heat up.

I've already pointed out the lack of bushes in the pivot which will cause the hole to wear to an oval and introduce slop.

This is nothing like the same as spending stupid money on Apple products because, while they are significantly overpriced, the products are of decent quality.

EDIT: Chinese levers on GSXR forum

ShakenNstirred · 15 Sep 2013 at 15:00

that locking while riding is bad mechanicing on the guys fitting them, check n test before riding would have highlighted that problem, if they bothered to look they surely would have seen that as they fitted them it moved the piston in a little or it wasn't returning right. that may sound harsh but who just fits anything to brakes etc be it cheap or not without checking everything is free etc, I know I don't.
I did check these and they were the same as the lever on the bike so no problems at all.

there is even more than 1 person on that link had the same fault happen on a AVS lever because of bad finishing so it happens on the top stuff also.
I can only go on my experience with them, as with anything there are people that have had problems with cheap or expensive ones.

Tefal · 15 Sep 2013 at 19:45

Dogbreath said:
Typical example of Chinese quality there, pivot runs straight into the aluminium rather than provide a bush like OEM levers have. Give it a year and it will be an oval hole.

which pivot exactly?

Tefal · 15 Sep 2013 at 19:49

Dogbreath said:
It's pretty obvious to me that they aren't just as good. Loads of people have found the anodising fades very quickly in sunlight, and more worryingly that have been quite a few instances of poor tolerances meaning that the lever will not allow the master cylinder to fully return, causing the brakes to bind and eventually lock on as they heat up.

I've already pointed out the lack of bushes in the pivot which will cause the hole to wear to an oval and introduce slop.

This is nothing like the same as spending stupid money on Apple products because, while they are significantly overpriced, the products are of decent quality.

EDIT: Chinese levers on GSXR forum

tbh if it's not allowing the master cylinder to return it just needs a little fettling/trimming 2 minute job with a hand or rotary file and some emery cloth. it's a machined part being fitted to an assembly it should be inspected these things rarely fit together fully first time. when i was fitting moving parts or panels i'd spend a fair bit of time fettling and adjusting for fouls and that's on civil airliner parts not car/motorcycle parts which are laughable quality in comparison.

you should never just fit something and go you should inspect and then tailor the fit to be precise as required.

If you're not competent, qualified and confident go to someone who is.

MouseMat2004 · 15 Sep 2013 at 21:26

Dogbreath said:
It's pretty obvious to me that they aren't just as good. Loads of people have found the anodising fades very quickly in sunlight, and more worryingly that have been quite a few instances of poor tolerances meaning that the lever will not allow the master cylinder to fully return, causing the brakes to bind and eventually lock on as they heat up.

I've already pointed out the lack of bushes in the pivot which will cause the hole to wear to an oval and introduce slop.

This is nothing like the same as spending stupid money on Apple products because, while they are significantly overpriced, the products are of decent quality.

EDIT: Chinese levers on GSXR forum

The original Pazzos didnt require any bushes either (636). It seems some models do and some dont, my chinese copies on the SP1 did require bushes (which were taken from the original OE levers)

No problems with anodising, although mines kept inside but I wouldnt be surprised if it did fade, especially the red. Would be interesting to see how the Pazzo fairs, I doubt that will last forever either.

As said, I think some of the issues were down to either people who have little mechanical know-how incorrectly fitting these things (probably no grease aswell) and also down to the eBay sellers listing them as fitting when they didnt fit perfectly. For instance when the wife got a Z750, she was gonna order a set and I remembered we still had a spare set from her old 636, they looked identical. The clutch side was but the brake was just a little too tight so we ordered the correct set and the fit was perfect, it could had been dangerous if I left the other set on. I know ages ago a lot of people with early R1's were ordering R6 levers because they fitted, but when I friend tried they were a little tight too, he sanded a little off and it was fine, not everyone will do this.

eidolon · 16 Sep 2013 at 08:10

MouseMat2004 said:
The original Pazzos didnt require any bushes either (636). It seems some models do and some dont, my chinese copies on the SP1 did require bushes (which were taken from the original OE levers)

Same here, I just reused the original bush on my Chinese levers. If you try and fit them without the bush you must be an idiot as they would wobble all over which is what I suspect happens in the cases where somebody crashes their bike and blames their levers.

As I said, I've got the Pazzos and the Chinese levers on my bikes and to the naked eye there's no difference. I've had the Chinese levers on my old ER5 and my SV650 and they were just as good as the Pazzos too. The fit of the cheap levers is 99% as good as the Pazzos, my only issue is the colour fading.

I'm sure there's a thread on the SV forum where somebody x-rayed both levers and confirmed that the Chinese ones were fine, maybe not quite as good as Pazzos but equally as good as the any other non-OEM levers you might buy.

Dogbreath · 16 Sep 2013 at 11:48

Tefal said:
tbh if it's not allowing the master cylinder to return it just needs a little fettling/trimming 2 minute job with a hand or rotary file and some emery cloth. it's a machined part being fitted to an assembly it should be inspected these things rarely fit together fully first time. when i was fitting moving parts or panels i'd spend a fair bit of time fettling and adjusting for fouls and that's on civil airliner parts not car/motorcycle parts which are laughable quality in comparison.

you should never just fit something and go you should inspect and then tailor the fit to be precise as required.

If you're not competent, qualified and confident go to someone who is.

If you bought an original lever from a dealer would you expect to have to modify it to make it work, or would you expect the quality control to be good enough that the part should work straight out of the box?

ShakenNstirred · 16 Sep 2013 at 17:21

Dogbreath said:
If you bought an original lever from a dealer would you expect to have to modify it to make it work, or would you expect the quality control to be good enough that the part should work straight out of the box?

yes you would expect it to just fit, but that's isn't always the case
and you shouldnt just fit it and expect it to work fine, you should always check as that is good working practice

Tefal · 16 Sep 2013 at 17:25

Dogbreath said:
If you bought an original lever from a dealer would you expect to have to modify it to make it work, or would you expect the quality control to be good enough that the part should work straight out of the box?

given that aircraft parts costing between £400 and 40,000 pounds don't come fitting out of the box no, no i don't.

because while the part may be accurate to drawing tolerances whose to say your bike still it or ever was?

Do you think you should modify your brakes then not thoroughly inspect them before use?

.one. · 17 Sep 2013 at 16:02

Tefal said:
given that aircraft parts costing between £400 and 40,000 pounds don't come fitting out of the box no, no i don't.

I have never come across an original genuine replacement Japanese motorcycle part were I had to use a rotary file or make any modification to said item for it to fit correctly.

Please give me some examples of genuine original parts that need to be modified before replacement ?

Dogbreath · 17 Sep 2013 at 17:15

.one. said:
I have never come across an original genuine replacement Japanese motorcycle part were I had to use a rotary file or make any modification to said item for it to fit correctly.

Me either, Japanese quality control is exceptional (in most cases).

Cheap pattern parts are another matter, but most often it's obvious when something doesn't fit properly. The problem with a badly made lever is that it can appear to fit and work correctly even if it is holding the master cylinder on.

Tefal · 17 Sep 2013 at 23:24

.one. said:
I have never come across an original genuine replacement Japanese motorcycle part were I had to use a rotary file or make any modification to said item for it to fit correctly.

Please give me some examples of genuine original parts that need to be modified before replacement ?

genuine original parts from the manufacture are built knowing the drawings from production, i.e being designed knowing the tolerances of every other part, master cylinder, pivot hole position etc a 3rd party part does not have this information and is built backwards to fit.

this might mean their designs tolerances fall in a range where if your master cylinder is at maximum tolerance and so is their piece (and as it's cnc machine it will almost always be built to the maximum allowed dimensions as it reduces the number of cuts needed) then they may conflict when at rest.

this is why in that link there were plenty of threads full of the high quality 3rd party parts, asv pazzo etc all so falling foul of fouling on the master cylinder.

also how can you be certain if your bike is second hand that any piece of your braking system has not being replaced with another 3rd party part, that might make your 3rd party levers jam on.

the point i'm making is you shouldn't just trust something especially on anything important, inspect it test it and don't just get on and **** off o nit.

it's up to you if you try and get a replacement (but if it's your fittings that are at fault it may just happen again) but please don't just stick something on and gho "well it cost a lot so it'll definitely work".