Chip for 300C

[NVP]

Hi guys,

My Dad owns a 56 plate Chrysler 300C CRD 3ltr V6 diesel (just in case spec is needed for advice) and it is quite bad on fuel and the auto gearbox is very sluggish.

Someone has told him that he can get a chip (£300 including fitting) that will decrease his fuel consumption as well as increase the performance (although I doubt it can do anything to increase the responsiveness of the gear change).

Now I'm not really sure on chips, I thought they just remap the ECU, but apparently not all of them are for remapping. My Dad said the chip is supposed to vary the amounts of the fuel injected and thus improve efficiency. My gripe is that if that is what the chip does how can it also improve the performance? And his response was that it was something to do with the fact that they sell their cars globally and thus have to account for fuel of poor quality, but here in england with good quality fuel it can be changed to reduce consumption AND increase performance...

How does that work? Can anyone give me an explanation as to how this chip actually works and what it actually does? Also if there are better mod's that can be added to decrease fuel consumption as well as improving the performance slightly? The performance is fine as it is (although it loses pulling power at the higher speeds) but the automatic gearbox is terrible, are there any ways of making it more responsive?

Thanks

NVP

 

[NVP]

Yeah that's exactly what I said to him before he bought it, but he likes big cars witha bit of poke and as he does over 100 motorway miles a day to work and back he needed a diesel... unfortunately it is still costing quite a bit to run so any decrease in fuel consumption would be noticed and appreciated.

So can a chip do this? Decrease consumption without decreasing performance? Is £300 a respectable price?

 

[NVP]

Do you really think so? So the difference won't be that noticable?! How much of an increase in MPG do you think would be achieved? Anything above 5 I'm sure would be a major increase.

 

[NVP]

Is always a possibility - a lot of "chips" are just resistors that fool the fuel pressure meter into thinking the pressure is lower than it is, meaning more fuel is injected.

Fuel economy claims are based on having more power, so not having to floor it as much

Oh really? That is quite contradictory of them to claim it is more economic due to the car having more power caused by more fuel being consumed. Or is the increase in fuel injection quite small compared to the increase it causes in the performance? Even if this is so, I'm sure for it to have a noticable affect on such a big car it would need a much bigger power increase thus negating the fuel consumption decrease.

So you guys think it's a bad idea then?

Sounds like he should have bought one then

haha! I know what you mean, I told him to at least get a 7-series... But for the fuel efficiency needs compared to the poke he requires the Chrysler is sufficient... Just!

 

[NVP]

Oh OK, thanks for the advice. Do you think you could maybe attempt an educated guess at an MPG increase figure? Something I could take back to my Dad.

 

[NVP]

OK here's what my Dad is interested in:

http://www.diesel-performance.co.uk/vehicle_results.php?make=CHRYSLER&model=300C&type=CRD

(Avg increase of 32bhp and 80Nm torque)

And this is how they say it works:

How it Works:
Todays diesel engines have many sensors which are controlled by the vehicles ECU these signals are processed many thousands of times in one second to maintain that the vehicle is running at its optimum efficiency and keeping the emissions and economy at acceptable levels.

The idea behind the tuning box is to intercept the signal between the ECU and the injection system usally the common rail and basically allows it to inject more fuel into the cylinders thus producing more torque and power, and because of this the engine is running more efficiently the fuel consumption is also improved because you would have to use less throttle for similar conditions.

So why don't the manufacturers do this....?
You may have wondered why a manufacturer can have the same engine in different models but they can have different power outputs.

This is not due to the engine mechanics as they are usually built to the same standard, but its down to the software installed into the ECU which governs the engines output.

Manufacturers do this because of the strict emissions regulations and tax bands especially for the company owned driver. Many countries around the world relate their tax levels to the KW output of a vehicle or the emission levels.

Installation:
All DTUK Systems have been designed to be compact and easy to fit they are supplied complete with the correct OEM wiring loom and connectors for the vehicle application and can be installed with the minimal of mechanical ability thus making it an ideal diy project, most units can be fitted in around 10 minutes and they come complete with full support.


FAQ:

Q) Why is your diesel tuning unit better than a chip?
A) Our unit can be fitted in most cases in less than 30 minutes (some 10 minutes) A chip replacement can take half a day or more.

Q) Will it damage my engine?
A) Our units are designed to improve your performance no more than 30%. So no, this is well within the tolerances of most engines. We have never had to our knowledge an incident where our unit has been responsible for any engine or engine related problem.

Q) Will I achieve the figures that are published?
A) Our published figures are generally conservative so as even the under performing or tired vehicles still achieve these figures and every body is happy.

Q) Why will giving my vehicle more power achieve better fuel results?
A) The tuning unit provides more torque through the engine particularly in the low to mid range. This allows the driver to change gear more quickly even with a automatic so as a higher gear is achieved giving better fuel economy.

It doesn't actually seem to be a "chip" of sorts, but it does sound quite promising although I'm not sure how much it would affect such a big car, but with a plausable average increase of 32bhp and 80Nm torque do you guys think its worth it?

 

[NVP]

yeah them chips things are rubbish they trick your engine into think theres more air than there is which then make the engine work harder. Only problem is that they blow your engine up like my mates 206. You need to get a ECU piggyback unit then you can remap how much power you want that the engine gives. These units are good if you have done some mods like air filter, sports cat, etc.

My mates got 1 on his yaris turbo and its mapped the engine from 105hp to 150hp

When do the schools go back again?

haha!

 

[NVP]

haha im sure that the Yaris turbo would beat whatever youve got and its still economical even though its got a turbo. Plus my over mate has a supercharger on his and well that beats Civic type-Rs and its always funny to see them laugh at 1st then see their faces when they loose to a Yaris. I know ppl are gonna say im talkin bull but think about 140hp on a car that weighs under 1000Kg are the power to weight ratio is a lot better than a Civic

Yeah... but no like my friends cousins boyfirends sisters husband has an enzo with a veyron engine in it you get me blad! But i digress...

Does anyone have any legitimate information on the fuel consumption and performance regarding the improvements the chips states it will make? (32bhp and 80Nm torque)

 

[NVP]

the chip will mess up your engine, you best buy a piggyback unit. They cost more but are better and dont mess around with the standard ECU. All what they are gonna do with that chip is stick it somewhere on your ecu board to trick it into thinking theres more air like ive said. Its not a good idea at all and if you want to do that then just go to ******s and buy a resistor yourself and fit it. Cost no more than a couple of quid

Anyone else?

 

[NVP]

Its a pretty obscure car, you'll be lucky to find any proper RR figures or anything. Could try and see if there's any owners clubs?

A remap might be more appropriate than a chip, some places will do different maps for power/economy etc.

Failing that, if the car isnt really what he wants, it might be better to cut his losses and sell it and buy something else?

Thanks iaind, the owners club is a good suggestion and I will look into when I'm home from work.

What is the difference between a remap and using a chip? I thought chips just remapped the ECU, but I'm guessing this was nieve of me. And about the link i provided (http://www.diesel-performance.co.uk/) , is that a chip or what? I think I'm in over my head... but I wish to learn all I can.

On the subject of getting a new car... nah he really likes this car, probably because everyone (who doesn't no a thing about cars) thinks its a bentley because of the GT grill on it. I always said to him to get a 730d but he went for this because it was a few grand cheaper... shame.

 

[NVP]

haha , the bentley thing fooled me when they first let them out. in fact it still does at first sight. Their is one sat outside my office window right now. Owners clubs are the way forwards and im sure it will be the best place to look for advice.

ha ha ha I know, I borrow the car sometimes when I go clubbing and the amount of girls I pull just because they see me in a "Bentley" is astonishing!!

I'm not sure of the ins and outs of how they work, the cheaper ones are definitely just fooling sensors but that one may be more along the lines of bluefin. The benefit of a remap is that its a bit more customisable and is done professionally. Have a look here:

http://www.celtictuning.co.uk/default.aspx

Remap to 265bhp/448lb/ft with an economy map available. Not sure what bhp/torque figures the economy map gives but its worth a call to them

Thanks again, I will give the site a full browse when I finish work. But generally speaking would a decent increase in bhp improve the fuel consumption noticeably? They told my dad it would increase the MPG by at least 10% which is still a big difference in such a big car.

Anyway back to this guys subject.

This thread is genuinely making me bang my head on my desk

I know the pain iaind. Thanks for all the genuine advice from people.

 

[NVP]

I want the power to kick you right between the eyes.

Stop talking rubbish.

EDIT: snap!

 

[NVP]

I'm not sure - I can sort of see the reasoning behind it but it sounds iffy. Celtic actually offer an economy map that is designed to improve economy, whether it does that at the expense of bhp/torque or not I dont know...

Oh ok, yeah I understand the doubts... I guess the best bet is to call around and ask them personally as well as to find anyone whos has already chip'd their 300c and see if it actually made a difference. Thanks guys, I will get on more research after work and report my findings just for informations sake. Cheers

 

[NVP]

Remap it, don't get a chip/tuning box. All they're doing is giving it more fuel or winding up the boost. A proper remap will change all the points on the fueling map (can't remember the technical term), and will still be using all the sensor readings whereas the chip would just be "OMG GIVE IT MORE FUEL".

Chrysler 3.0 CRD V6 is 218 HP & 510 NM stock, and one mapper claims (for example) to get 258 HP and 600 NM.

Also, it's a lot better to get a proper remap (check it for errors, stick it on the rollers stock, give it a generic 3.0 CRD V6 map on it, stick it on the rollers again, and then customize the map to your engine) done rather than simply a guy coming to you with his laptop and sticking on a generic 3.0 CRD V6 map.

"winding up the boost"? meaning forcing more air into the turbo or am I not undestanding? Yeah I can see the benefits of a custom remap, but my dad doesn't really want more power, just more mpg. But I suppose a remap could be customed to act more efficient although I'm pretty sure it would decrease performance considerably.
What is wrong with injecting slightley more fuel to increase the performance ration and thus use less fuel in the long run? Also, what is this about the engines being set up to run dirty fuels from other countries and how do the chips or remaps take advantage of this?

 

[NVP]

i keep going on about a chip cause they are RUBBISH and should be avoided at all cost and the best thing to get is a remap

Oh I see, thank you.

I'm actually struggling to find where people have reccomended something other than a proper remap

So is a remap the general concensus? Are chips that unsafe? Or just not very effective?

 

[NVP]

Thanks again guys, it's a wonder I managed to get some sense out of this topic after the way "somepeople" went on about yaris's and v-tec! As said before I will try and find more information on specific remaps and chips used by 300C owners...

Just another quick thought though, at http://www.diesel-performance.co.uk/faqs.php they say

Q) Will it damage my engine?
A) Our units are designed to improve your performance no more than 30%. So no, this is well within the tolerances of most engines. We have never had to our knowledge an incident where our unit has been responsible for any engine or engine related problem.

If these are not meant to strain the engine, how are they a bad idea to use? Or is it not that they are not unsafe, just inefficient compared to a custom economy remap?

EDIT: Off home now so make take me an hour or so to respond to replies.

 

[NVP]

i know this is abit off topic, but at work in the loft I have 4 * 22" wheels for a 300C (with 2 or 3 good tyres), need to get rid of them.... would he be interested ?

AFAIK they need abit of a refurb as the chrome has bubbled up abit, they are VERY bling though

Hmmm... i'll ask him and let you know. do you have some pictures you could post so i can show him? thanks

 

[NVP]

Finally got around to ordering a diesel chip and we received it this morning.

My Dad decided on this DTUK® CRD-T - 2 Channel Common Rail and Turbo Boost System from Diesel Tuning UK.

I've read through the instrtuctins and it looks very simple to fit, one connection to the common rail sensor and another to the boost pressure sensor.

I will try to fit it if I have time after work but if not then I will do it at the weekend but I would like to know if anyone has any previous experience in fitting a diesel mod and if there is anyhting else I should be wary of when attempting the installation?

Cheers
NVP

 

[NVP]

My Dads choice of car, I said 730d but he chose the 300c. He's only bought the chip to reduce fuel consumption and from the looks of it, that is exactly what this is supposed to do. We will only find out once it is installed...

According to DTUK, your assumption about conning the engine is correct and here is their reasoning.

 

[NVP]

Hmm... we'll see how well/if it works and I will report back it's effectiveness.

Back to the installation issue, can anyone see any issues I should watch out for when installing it? It says in the instructions to place the module in a place which avoids damp and excessive heat (and obviously moving parts). Any suggestions on the best place?