Choosing a rucksack

[Amp34]

Osprey aren't great for proper long distance hiking with 15kg+ which you'll reach if you're bringing tent + food for two and a water bladder.

My friends got their 65L bags and the shoulder straps caused some serious pain, granted they were tools and overpacked their bags hideously so that didn't help.

I'd recommend the Lowe-Alpine 35-45L bag:
http://www.gooutdoors.co.uk/lowe-alpine-airzone-pro-35-45-rucksack-p269841

You can shop around or use price match to get it cheaper, I got mine for £70 with a price match.

Osprey are budget bags, they're good budget bags, I use a day-pack style 30L for commuting/trips to the family etc but for actual hiking you need to consider it an investment unless you want some serious back/shoulder pain with a heavy pack.

First time I've heard of osprey bags being "Budget"

It may well just be that your friends didn't pick bags that were designed for their shape or the weight they were carrying. I find the lightweight straps on the atmos very comfy, but I know others hate them.

Like most technical outdoor gear it's best to go to a decent shop (Cotswold/Ellis Brigham/snow and rock or a decent independent) and try various bags on and see how they fit. Several manufacturers now do back customization (heat usually) to get the bag as comfy as possible for you.

Like most on here Id recommend no more than a 45-50l bag as that is all you should need for even fairly long multi day hikes. The problem is the bag is only one part of a decent system. You'll also want to be getting a lightweight tent (~2kg or less for 2 people), sleeping bags, thermarests/pads, cooking stuff (the MSR pocket rocket is awesome and a great buy, along with primus cooking pots (ones with the fins on the bottom) and a multitude of lightweight stuff. It shouldn't cost too much to get an entire weeks kit down to 10-12kg (exc water).

Which brands - Osprey, Berghaus, Deuter, Lowe Alpine are all good. Which one you buy should depend on what fits best and what one best fits your needs. I have a 35l atoms and it struggles to carry more than about 15kg comfortably, but it's a lightweight bag, designed for lightweight hiking*, Osprey do heavier bags designed for more weight if you really need it - but then you're just inflicting pain on yourself if you really need more than 15kg!

*My kit is about 10/12kg wet (with food and water) but I usually carry about 3kg of camera equipment as well...

 

[Amp34]

On my last 4 day hike I forced myself to weigh absolutely everything I brought, down to the spare shoelaces. I didn't bring anything that I didn't absolutely need, apart from maybe some excess food. Ainsley Harriott couscous packs are a godsend. Two of them for a dinner is plenty even after a long day and they are very light. No need to splash out £5+ on those silly ration pack style ones. Had some chorizo with me with I chopped into the couscous while it was cooking that made it go from meh to amazing

Get some cereal bars that you like for snacking during the day, bread, cheese and chorizo for lunch and muesli for breakfast and I'm happy out, plenty of calories to keep you going and nothing excessively heavy. I can also recommend that tubes of condensed milk, a squirt and some water will give you passable milk, it's a bit sweet but was quite tasty with the muesli. A small bit is all you need in tea and just tastes like someone put in a quarter tsp of sugar, not too bad.

EDIT: If anyone is interested in exactly what I brought:
http://i.imgur.com/kmbHlu7.png

Worth noting that I was aiming for 13kg, overshot that by quite a margin. Need to get a lighter sleeping bag and bring less clothes next time!

New tent, new sleeping bag and less clothes Would lose you 3-4 easily. I'd also question the weight of your camel pack. No way should an empty one weight that much! I have an osprey 2 litre and it weights around 500g, not 2kg (I assume it's not filled as a litre of water weights 1kg).

I am a bit smelly when hiking though! Quite happy to wear the same t-shirt and trousers/ shorts for several days so will usually only pack one spare of each. You can usually wash/ rinse everything out regularly in water anyway. A quick rinse of a decent pair of wool hiking socks will mean a single pair will last several days (rinsing the salt out) as well.

 

[Amp34]

haha, now I've stood in clouds of them, watching everyone around me whine about getting bitten.
And I've never been bitten.....It's like I'm a bad smell

But best to get something for the little guy, cheers

Life entire do a really good green mozzie reppant. It works very well and is not made of deet (eucalyptus oil instead). I usually pair up a mid sized can of that with a small bottle of high percentage deet stuff (comes in a tiny can), just in case it's needed. Just don't get the latter on electrical items as it'll melt plastic and the text on them... I would tell you what it's called but the writing has melted off the sides...

 

[Rexxar]

Another vote for Osprey , They are expensive but try and wrangle a discount in one of the stores that sell them. They'll last you a very long time and are very comfortable.

 

[GiraffePencils]

Indeed. Please take note of this advice. Checking for ticks each night is very important. They are rife up here. I used to get them a fair bit until I wore gaiters. Just got back from Rannoch at the weekend and the dog had 5 and he was wearing an expensive tick collar. Make sure to pack a tick remover and check each night. They're easy to deal with but spotting them and removing them quickly can make all the difference. I use the O Tom tick twister and can recommend that....miles better than tweezers.

I take a Lowe Alpine when I'm climbing.

Get Smidge and forget the Avon crap. A midge net for the head or even better a midge jacket. Use permethrin (Sawyers) spray for your clothes and equipment as ticks will be in abundance.

I know several people who still suffer serious symptoms from contacting Lyme disease, it's a very serious issue.

I'm usually good for checking for ticks, but never had to remove one yet so I'll look into the tool, thanks

I couldn't disagree more. Osprey certainly aren't budget packs. My 73L Aether pack is really comfortable even with 25KG+. Even my Talon 33L is a great day pack and was around the £80 mark. I really do recommend them.

First time I've heard of osprey bags being "Budget" :
...
...
Like most on here Id recommend no more than a 45-50l bag as that is all you should need for even fairly long multi day hikes. The problem is the bag is only one part of a decent system. You'll also want to be getting a lightweight tent (~2kg or less for 2 people), sleeping bags, thermarests/pads, cooking stuff (the MSR pocket rocket is awesome and a great buy, along with primus cooking pots (ones with the fins on the bottom) and a multitude of lightweight stuff. It shouldn't cost too much to get an entire weeks kit down to 10-12kg (exc water).
...

Another vote for Osprey , They are expensive but try and wrangle a discount in one of the stores that sell them. They'll last you a very long time and are very comfortable.

Hmm, I won't rule osprey out then, I have to admit they look slick.
I'm going to tray and go round the shops, try on different bags etc, get a good feel.

I'm not going until the start of august, so I'll try and get everything else I'll need then size it up.
You've all got me concerned about my tent now I thought 3.2kg would be alright, the inner and outer also have separate bags to split the weight up.

With regards to the cooking equipment, I've got a slight concern with stability over the one's that 'sit on the canister'
Is that just paranoia or is investing in a stand a good shout?

 

[Rannoch]

Indeed. Please take note of this advice. Checking for ticks each night is very important. They are rife up here. I used to get them a fair bit until I wore gaiters. Just got back from Rannoch at the weekend and the dog had 5 and he was wearing an expensive tick collar. Make sure to pack a tick remover and check each night. They're easy to deal with but spotting them and removing them quickly can make all the difference. I use the O Tom tick twister and can recommend that....miles better than tweezers.

Was it Rannoch Moor or Loch Rannoch you were at? I have a place on the south side of Loch Rannoch.

 

[DJ_Switch]

Was it Rannoch Moor or Loch Rannoch you were at? I have a place on the south side of Loch Rannoch.

You've got an incredible place there. It was the South side of Loch Rannoch I was at. We had the hammocks pitched near the top end of the Black Wood...between the black wood and the Dall burn. I've been up there a few times and it's absolutely stunning. The only other person I saw in 3 days was someone who came through doing an ant hill survey. That's amazing that you've got a place there. Jealous doesn't even cover it.

 

[Rannoch]

You've got an incredible place there. It was the South side of Loch Rannoch I was at. We had the hammocks pitched near the top end of the Black Wood...between the black wood and the Dall burn. I've been up there a few times and it's absolutely stunning. The only other person I saw in 3 days was someone who came through doing an ant hill survey. That's amazing that you've got a place there. Jealous doesn't even cover it.

Were you camping or staying the log cabin on the hill by any chance? I have a place on The Dall Estate. I jump between there and Corstorphine.

 

[Darg]

If you're heading up to Aviemore then make sure to get some Smidge. Do not listen to anyone who tells you about Avon Skin So Soft....as someone who goes camping a fair bit up here I can tell you without reservation that Smidge is the only thing to really work and I've used both extensively. Don't skimp on it either.

Apparently they changed skin so soft, took out whatever it was that was working against midges. Probably halved their sales in Scotlands

 

[Darg]

New tent, new sleeping bag and less clothes Would lose you 3-4 easily. I'd also question the weight of your camel pack. No way should an empty one weight that much! I have an osprey 2 litre and it weights around 500g, not 2kg (I assume it's not filled as a litre of water weights 1kg).

I am a bit smelly when hiking though! Quite happy to wear the same t-shirt and trousers/ shorts for several days so will usually only pack one spare of each. You can usually wash/ rinse everything out regularly in water anyway. A quick rinse of a decent pair of wool hiking socks will mean a single pair will last several days (rinsing the salt out) as well.

100g for the camelbak and I filled it with 2L of water in the morning and at lunch. I was factoring the water into the 17kg weight.

The 2 person tent I have is supposed to be a lightweight one, if I had someone to share it with then it would have been fine but I was carrying the entire thing myself. It's miles better than the 6kg one we had before it.

Clothes wise, because we were going up munros while there was still snow up there I was bringing thermal layers and a down jacket as well as a fleece. In the end I spent most of the trip in just tshirt and my trek pants! Still, long johns make handy pyjamas, could have done without them in a pinch though.

 

[bobbyspangles]

I used to have an Osprey Kestrel. It was a good bag, well-made but overly complicated. It seemed to have pockets, inside pockets, inside pockets, most of which were never used. My preference for bags now is a large, single compartment, preferably with multiple access, and lots of attachment points/straps on the outside.

I've just come across this one that looks good. 45L is a good size for 1 or 2 nights, plus you can buy a set of two 15L compartments which zip onto the side of it for extra capacity. A quick look around and it can be had for ~£65.

http://www.berghaus.com/centurio-45/420501.html

Lifetime guarantee too, whatever that's worth.

 

[DJ_Switch]

Were you camping or staying the log cabin on the hill by any chance? I have a place on The Dall Estate. I jump between there and Corstorphine.

I didn't see any log cabin on my travels. When I get home after work I'll stick a screen grab up from google maps and show you where.

The Dall Estate is lovely. I'm very close to Corstorphine in Edinburgh...about a 6 minute walk from the Zoo.

 

[Vipernet]

Try the Argos Highlander Starav bags. I did all the design, testing and media for them. Great bags.

 

[GiraffePencils]

I'm gonna try and gather everything up that I need for the trip,
I'm slightly abusing your image Darg, using it as a quick check to see if I've missed anything
god starting at 0 for camping equipment leaves a dent in the wallet haha

 

[Darg]

Glad I can help Giraffe

It certainly does, I went shopping with three friends that pretty much had to buy everything and another friend who had everything she needed already. Me and her spent about £50 between us on gas and some other bits, the other three spent £1200 between them, it was painful to watch. In fairness they did go a bit overboard on getting super high quality stuff for one trip. Just going to have to make sure we go on more so they get their moneys worth!

 

[Rannoch]

I didn't see any log cabin on my travels. When I get home after work I'll stick a screen grab up from google maps and show you where.

The Dall Estate is lovely. I'm very close to Corstorphine in Edinburgh...about a 6 minute walk from the Zoo.

The Dall Estate is nice, had a place up there for just over 3 years. I'm not that far from the zoo, a few streets behind the BBQ chippy.

 

[Rroff]

I'm gonna try and gather everything up that I need for the trip,
I'm slightly abusing your image Darg, using it as a quick check to see if I've missed anything
god starting at 0 for camping equipment leaves a dent in the wallet haha

Stick a couple of mylar/space blankets in there - cheap, take up no space/weight and can be really useful. Didn't see it on his list thought might have missed it.

 

[MookJong]

Eastpack Hutson is what I swear by.

But maybe not so good for camping.

http://www.eastpak.com/uk-en/backpacks-c120/hutson-black2-pEK20207I+00+999.html

 

[Amp34]

100g for the camelbak and I filled it with 2L of water in the morning and at lunch. I was factoring the water into the 17kg weight.

The 2 person tent I have is supposed to be a lightweight one, if I had someone to share it with then it would have been fine but I was carrying the entire thing myself. It's miles better than the 6kg one we had before it.

Clothes wise, because we were going up munros while there was still snow up there I was bringing thermal layers and a down jacket as well as a fleece. In the end I spent most of the trip in just tshirt and my trek pants! Still, long johns make handy pyjamas, could have done without them in a pinch though.

That makes more sense.

If I was doing it on my own I would be using something like a laser comp, which weighs in at about 1kg. As it is I hike with my other half so we have a two man (an MSR hubba hubba hp) which is about 1.7kg. It starts getting expensive losing that extra kg though, but it's worth it when carrying it.

 

[GiraffePencils]

Glad I can help Giraffe

It certainly does, I went shopping with three friends that pretty much had to buy everything and another friend who had everything she needed already. Me and her spent about £50 between us on gas and some other bits, the other three spent £1200 between them, it was painful to watch. In fairness they did go a bit overboard on getting super high quality stuff for one trip. Just going to have to make sure we go on more so they get their moneys worth!

aww, don't say that!
I'm already way over my reported budget (not that i'll tell the partner )

Stick a couple of mylar/space blankets in there - cheap, take up no space/weight and can be really useful. Didn't see it on his list thought might have missed it.

good shout, I've got a couple from runs that're unused