Clarification on a Ladbrokes football bet?

Detroit_Waves · 22 Sep 2010 at 07:45

So,

I put on a football bet with Ladbrokes in the shop yesterday, for West Ham, Leicester and Brentford to win. Which they all did. With 2 pounds on at what I saw online as 80 to 1, I was fairly chirpy...Until, my brother told me that the bet doesnt stand as, Brentford won on Penalties, and not after 90 mins.

Now, on my slip, I literally have, Brentford to win, and thats all. Now, Brenford won, so I dont see how they won as disputable, I just want to know, if anyone knows whether it is or not.

Has anyone any experience with anything similar with Ladbrokes that they could enlighten me, and hopefully not ruin my day before I go in there tonight.

Detroit_Waves · 22 Sep 2010 at 08:30

Andr3w said:
That's rubbish if it's true.

You put a bet on to win......and they won!

Thats pretty much the argument im going to have with them if they try and tell me otherwise. I dont see why I have to clearly state I expect them to win after 90 minutes in a penalty shoot out. I expect them to win, I clearly stated I expected them to win, and they won!

However, knowing my luck I see the guy behind the counter saying 'nothing I can do' and that being that.

Detroit_Waves · 22 Sep 2010 at 16:16

A2Z said:
Yep its always 90 mins.

You really should read the rules before you start betting with money.....

For 2 Pounds, Im not exactly too fussed about reading the rules, as 98% of the time, the matches I bet on are concluded only by the 90 mins. If 2% is going to cost me 2 pound. So be it. Thank you for the advice however.

As an update, I have just got back from Ladbrokes, and I am 82 pounds up. I spoke to the guy, about the fact the I was aware the bets are placed for a 90 minute duration. Had I have placed this on any of their quickslips, I would have lost as it clearly states it is for 90 minutes of play. As I placed the bet on my own slip, with Brentford to win, as Brentford won, I was given the odds I would have gotten for a win at any time bet, of 41/1.

I was obviously walked through, if I which to place bets like that in future, to obviously put 'To win at any time, and qualify' on the slip. Which obviously makes perfect sense.

So thank you for all your help anyways.

Detroit_Waves · 22 Sep 2010 at 16:48

el_dazza said:
You are KIDDING me?!

I'm going to head down there and pretend I know sod all about betting and try it on with them then if they're going to do that! Actually, no I'm not, because the staff know me. Consider yourself incredibly lucky then, pleading ignorance with a bookie usually leaves you red faced, especially such a large one as Ladbrokes. Whoever paid out to you is in for a rollocking, that's for sure.

I didn't play dumb, plead ignorance, nor do I know nothing about betting.

I went in, explained that I was aware of the fact that bets, unless stated otherwise, are for 90 minutes. However, my slip stated that I placed a bet that Brentford would win. They won. The guy was nice, phoned head office, then worked out the odds for to win and qualify, and paid me for that.

I didn't expect to walk out with anything, I was going in anyways, so I just went to talk with them about how it would work. Head office told them to pay me, so...they paid me.

Detroit_Waves · 22 Sep 2010 at 17:40

They did pay me out on all 3 to qualify.

Detroit_Waves · 23 Sep 2010 at 13:30

Nix said:
Manager's discretion. He obviously spoke to someone nice. Seeing as he wrote it on his own slip with 'to win' that could be taken as outright, so he got lucky. Chances are they translated it within the system for the outright market as opposed to 90 minutes play. The manager would only really get a slap if they went back into the system to change it after the event had played as that would look like fiddling the system.

Personally, I'd have put that under the 90 minutes play and not paid him. If someone wants outright they tend to tell you, or you ask them if you have a chance to do so.

OP, did you write down your odds?

Nope, I didnt write any odds down. My slip literally read

West Ham to win
Leicester to win
Brentford to win

As for those smelling BS...It really doesn't bother me, I got a pay out, which was unexpected, and nice. Whether I got lucky, spoke to someone who didnt know the rules, or blagged it somehow, either way, I was paid. As for the odds that I got and the amount I was given, I didnt question it and why would I. He told me how much I was getting and gave me the cash...the last thing I was going to do was say...Are you sure these odds are right? lol.

The guy who served me, wont get into any trouble, as he cleared it with head office first. He then placed it under his system as a 'discretionary payout', so nothing was changed on the system. The only other thing I had to do was fill out a white form that he gave me, with my name address and signiture, along with him having to fill out a section for my ID, along with taking down my drivers license ID number, as there was a section for this too. Then, I got my money. That is all.

At the end of the day, I placed a bet on a seperate slip (which, to whoever said that ladbrokes staff are told not to placed football bets on them and place them on the quickslip....this just isnt true, as I place one pretty much every week on these blank slips. Especially as the quick slips dont cover anywhere near all the matches that are played throughout the world that they accept bets on) This seperate slip stated nothing about the 90 minutes, unlike the quickslips that do. I placed a bet for three teams to win. They all won. This may have been after the 90 minutes, but I never bet on 90 minutes of play. I bet on a final outcome, the final outcome of three wins. The final outcome of the Brentford game was most definitely not a draw, it was a win to Brentford. Therefore all my bets came in, the manager in Ladbrokes accepted this, their head office accepted this and I accepted this. That's all there is to it.

Detroit_Waves · 23 Sep 2010 at 13:37

weringo said:
As am I, had all 3 teams won in 90 minutes he'd have got the original odds he was expecting of 80/1, theres no chance the bookies would pay out on a different selection or you could spend all day putting down bets on "to win" and then claim you didnt know it only included within 90 mins and effectively get two bets for the price of one.

You seem to be missing everything I have said.

I never went in telling Ladbrokes that I had no idea it only included within 90 minutes. The first thing I told them was that I was FULLY AWARE that standard bets run for the first 90 minutes of game play. However, my betting slip was never accepted in this way. My bet was accepted by the staff in the shop, as three specific teams to win, of which the three I picked, won and qualified. This is what it said on my betting slip, this is what happened. My slip was accepted in the shop, and seeing as Ladbrokes offer odds on teams to qualify, the manager of the shop did say, that it is the shops responsibility to check the odds for these games and write them on the slip if the customer doesnt, which obviously then represent what bet is being placed. I was never asked, and the bet was just placed. This, I imagine is another reason why I received the payout, due to staff error for not checking my original bet.

Also, you wouldnt be able to go in day after day hoping for a payout, due to as already stated, I should have been asked by staff whqt the bet was to cover, so they could write the odds down, however they didnt. I would imagine that 99% of shops would have asked me, and I would have told them the bet was to win outright, and I would have got paid either way.

Detroit_Waves · 23 Sep 2010 at 13:56

It wasnt be who quoted the odds, I was never given the odds in the shop. The odds of 80/1 I was given, was worked out by a friend upon telling him of my bet. I assume, he worked this out based on all teams to win within 90 minutes, not to qualify. So, there were never any odds placed on the bet, or written down on the slip. So the odds never changed, because they were never there in the first place.

Detroit_Waves · 23 Sep 2010 at 14:05

el_dazza said:
Thing is, it clearly states in their rule book that:

- If a bet is accepted in error, then the bet will become void and stakes will be returned.

I'm calling bs on the fact you got paid out 80-odd quid. You'd get just over 14/1 on that. £2 on that returns £30. Explain this one?

But the bet was never accepted in error! My bet never changed, I bet on a to qualify basis (even though I never wrote this, this was my intention) and my bet could have been read both ways, the manager took my word, and paid me.

As for the odds, for the second time...I didnt question how much I was paid, I didnt ask him to break it down for me, I didnt expect any money, I didnt even go in asking for money. I just in to ask questions about the bet. I assumed I wouldnt get paid. Upon being told he would pay for the bet, I didnt ask any questions...why would I. I assume the odds I was giving was for all teams to qualify, as this is what I clearly stated to him was my intention. However he and whoever he had to phone to get the odds for the previous day, worked it out, I dont know, as I was watching the dogs whilst he was sorting it. So, no offence, but I have no reason to come and tell you that I got paid, if I didnt...its not like 80 quid is a lot of money to be bragging about. I just thought I would tell you the outcome of me going to the shop, just in case anyone wanted to know for future reference.

Detroit_Waves · 23 Sep 2010 at 14:07

el_dazza said:
Not like my dad's mate is an area manager for Ladbrokes or anything, and have several friends that work for them.

If this were true, where do you place bets for football, that arent on the quickslip?

Detroit_Waves · 23 Sep 2010 at 14:10

Gilly said:
...and you didn't know that bets are over 90 mins? Having bet on them pretty much every week?

I knew, and I don't do it anything like that often.

You smell fishy. Definite shenanigans somewhere.

As explained, the past year I have I bet on football, they have all been league games, where all games are settled within 90 mins, regardless as no extra time is ever played. So no, I didnt know, because it has never been an issue to be brought to my attention

Detroit_Waves · 23 Sep 2010 at 14:13

Gilly said:
What if the winning goal was scored in the 95th minute?

I think injury time is included in the 90 minutes, as injury time is time that effectively should have been played in the original 90 minutes.

However, could easily be wrong, but Ive never had a bet returned for a team scoring a winning goal in extra time

Detroit_Waves · 23 Sep 2010 at 14:17

el_dazza said:
Ask at the counter which bet you want, and they'll process it for you. I've done it many times, it's not rocket science.

If this was your intention then why did you not state it? It clearly says on all Ladbrokes coupons 'cup games are settled after 90 mins play unless otherwise stated'. :/

It is also not rocket science to write which teams you would like to win on a slip. Which is what I have also done if not using the quickslip for the past year and not once been told to do it any differently. You should probably tell your Dads friend, that something in the training process obviously isnt working!

And this was my intention and it was stated, I wanted a win, I stated a win, they won. On blank white ladbrokes coupons, the same ones that I use for horses, has absolutely no reference to football cup games in the slightest.

Detroit_Waves · 23 Sep 2010 at 14:20

Gilly said:
I agree that '90 mins' and 'normal time' would both generally include injury time, but I have been aware for a long, long time that to bet to win on a cup game means over the course of normal time.

In fairness, if you plead ignorance of that, if it is in the small print (which it is) then you have no-one to blame but yourself.

I never realised bookies were so charitable.

Again, I fully agree I was to blame for not stating more clearly my intention on my slip. I have said this from the start of the thread. I never knew this fact, and I never went into the shop to argue this point. I had notched it up to experience and knew for next time. It was the shop who told me that they would pay it, not once did I ask for it. My bet was for 2 pounds haha, I wasnt going to be losing sleep over that, and 160 return wasnt ever going to change my life, would have been a nice win, but im not going to cry over it.

Detroit_Waves · 23 Sep 2010 at 14:21

Gilly said:
They didn't win

I guess we wont be seeing them in the next round then

Detroit_Waves · 23 Sep 2010 at 14:26

el_dazza said:
Exactly. Even after 120 minutes it was still a draw, so I'm afraid there's just no argument here. You were wrong the whole time, even proven so, but there's no telling you it seems.

You dont seem to be reading anything Im writing lol. I completely wholeheartedly agree with you! I dont need to be told, because I agree with you. After 90 minutes of play, the game was a draw. It couldnt have been more of a draw if it tried, and a draw is not a win.

However, I never bet on 90 minutes of play, and never wanted to. I placed a bet for a outright win at any time. Which happened via a shoot out. I placed a bet that I felt portrayed this. When taken to Ladbrokes, the manager believed this was the case, and paid me a sum of money that I didnt question.

Detroit_Waves · 23 Sep 2010 at 14:29

jakeke said:
At the end of the day, you were wrong, you didn't know you were wrong, but you were. You got extremely lucky and got some money.

I would have only been wrong had I have placed a bet on 90 minutes of play. As my predictions of three wins wouldnt have been true. I however, never bet on 90 minutes of play, I bet on a win at anytime, resulting in qualification.

Detroit_Waves · 23 Sep 2010 at 14:32

Weebull said:
Sorry, but you honestly had no odds specified on your slip? Despite that being a massive issue in itself, how did they work out which odds they should have used for you?

I mean, I guess football betting is simplified and therefore made somewhat inelastic, but do the odds not still change? If your bet had been on horse racing or something, without a specification, your bet could have been on any number of differing odds, depending on the time of placement.

This isnt true. If no odds are stated on a horse race at the time of betting, then you automatically receive the odds that are given for the horse at the time the race begins. If you are to state your odds, you receive those odds, whether leading upto the race the odds change, for better or worse.

Football odds are standardised before the match, they dont change. They only change if you bet within play. Therefore, a quick phone call to head office, he was able to see the odds for the day before, as they would have been saved somewhere in their database

Detroit_Waves · 23 Sep 2010 at 14:36

Weebull said:
You didn't specify any of that though, so he's still right. You were wrong.

I was wrong to not specify clearly on my slip my intentions. As to me, they were not known, which is my fault, I should have read the small print at some point to be made aware, that games are settled within 90 mins...again, I think for the 6th time now, I have said this from the start.

My bet however, the outcome I predicted for what I wanted, was nto wrong.

Detroit_Waves · 23 Sep 2010 at 14:39

Weebull said:
What's not true? I didn't state anything, I was asking.

Fair enough then I guess, I've never placed a football bet. I assume they wrote the date of your bet down then? Seems odd (buddum tisch) they wouldn't put the odds down too.

Sorry my apologies, I thought you were making a statement regarding odds on horses, not asking...sorry!

And no, I placed the date in the top right corner, which is what I do with all bets, so there is a reference to the date of play.

yeah, they should have put the odds down, as they usually do on other bets I placed. But to be honest I dont question when they dont do something, as I assume if they dont do something, then there is a reason why, and I dont want to question them on a job position I dont really know about.