Con Lake Con firmed [Warning: AdoredTV]

[Chuk_Chuk]

2 months ago adored released a video regarding base clocks on coffee lake (link)
He has just released a follow up to that.

here is the review in question https://www.computerbase.de/2017-12/medion-erazer-x67015-aldi-gaming-pc-test/

TL DW; I7 in aldi PC scoring lower than expected in cinebench. We may see more/most prebuilt pc and non overclocked PC running close to base clock.

Admittedly its one data (or 2 if you include HP) point, but I don't think OEM's will be going against the official specifications and push them past it. I'm also kind of surprised.

What does everyone else think?

P.S. I gave a fair warning so you can't complain about being tricked to come into a thread discussing AdoredTV's video

 

[Caracus2k]

Guys a massive AMD zealot....

Who exactly does he think he's talking to??

Moaning that some **** box medion PC piece of **** has sub par cooling and cheapo components and hence poor performance ..... No ****!!

Back in the real world his enthusiast audience knows that with proper cooling for both that a 8700k is a better choice currently for most consumer workloads vs a slight cheaper 1800x setup.

We can partially thank AMD for pushing Intel to release a hex core consumer chip sooner.

I couldn't see him covering the broken backwards compatibility of the latest AMD graphics card drivers on his YouTube channel.... Can't imagine that he would not be all over it if it was nvidia or Intel in a similar situation ....

 

[AndreiD]

I'm not sure how any of that computerbase review proves Adored right, but that's Adored for you.
OEM cheaped out on cooling and power supply so the 8700 TBT can't really boost to the maximum all core boost, that's pretty much all there is to it. I do think Intel should have some stricter guidelines for OEMs so you don't end getting sub-par performance due to OEMs trying to cut corners.

 

[sideways14a]

He is absolutely correct though, the tech press are useless and dont seem to be going into much depth with there reviews.
While we on this forum might know that a processor will run slower on crap cooling and a cheep board i can bet you 95% of the public buying one wont. They will maybe see a review of a bit of kit and think, that looks good - until they get it in there Dell/Hp or some other mass produced box and its 20% slower.

He has also ranted at great length about AMD recently as well, so i dont know where the AMD shill part comes in.

 

[AndreiD]

His kid's gloves rants at AMD are pretty laughable though, it's not difficult to notice his pretty extreme bias based on the videos he puts out.
And your average pre-built has had issues since the inception of pre-builts, it's nothing new that usually you're not really getting the best when you buy one. I can guarantee that if you search hard enough you'll find an AMD pre-built with a Ryzen that doesn't turbo to the chips' supposed clocks because the OEM cheaped out on something (usually cooling).

 

[sideways14a]

Yes this is true, but its also worth noting he is right about the way intel are playing this now (and i presume AMD will also do with there next round of chips)
Reviewers really need to bench stuff like cpus in a more likely scenario. Most wont be cooling there cpus with water or using a 3 foot high air cooler.
Benching at best case scenario is all well and good to show the potential but i would like to see what your likely to get under normal circumstances.

I mean, just look at the difference with multi core enhancements, thats a big difference from what your likely going to see with a normal bog standard box - would like to see this highlighted more for jo public who dont know the difference.

 

[Caracus2k]

Reviewers really need to bench stuff like cpus in a more likely scenario. Most wont be cooling there cpus with water or using a 3 foot high air cooler.

The people that watch channels like adored jay2cents or even Linus most likely do use at least high end air coolers/ aio's

The people that buy **** box medion pc's don't generally watch these sorts of channels...

His just being disingenuous trying to slate intel on an enthusiast oriented (if rather biased) channel by using a poorly constructed oem pc as his example.

The real moral here is not 'don't buy intel'
.. But don't buy cheapo oem PC's sold of the back of a relatively high performimg CPU and GPU but surrounded with sub par components

 

[AndreiD]

But he's using the confusion surrounding Intel's Turbo Boost Technology to make some bold, erroneous claims.
For the 65W chips you don't really need beefy cooling, a simple tower or a decent top down like AMD's Wraith would suffice, but look at some of the small aluminum heatsinks with a wimpy fan pre-builts have.
And the MCE thing is down to the motherboard makers, they're doing the same thing with AMD now, my Asus X370 mobo has a Performance Bias option that gives me a few points in Cinebench or Geekbench for example.

 

[DragonQ]

We can partially thank AMD for pushing Intel to release a hex core consumer chip sooner.

Haha.

 

[Caracus2k]

Haha.

Probably true though... Certainly quickened intel release schedule but they would released a hex core consumer CPU around now anyway as they would/ were rapidly running out of ways to offer an even slightly compelling upgrade of their own products never mind AMD's

 

[spoffle]

I think some people don't understand the difference between being biased, and some companies doing bad things more often than other companies.

You can't get equal criticism when there isn't an equal amount of underhanded things going on.

This is why some people criticise Intel and nVidia more than AMD and RTG.

The problems AMD has had are ones of incompetence, and then an unwillingness to admit the incompetency. For example, Vega. Whereas nVidia and Intel actively engage in underhanded anti-consumer and anti-competitive behaviour.

AMD aren't saints, and that isn't the point of my post, that AMD aren't as bad. Though some people won't read my post properly, they'll just substitute it with something else and claim I'm defending AMD, but the reality is that nVidia and Intel deserve more criticism because they're doing more things that are underhanded and dishonest, and seemingly just hope, or rely on the tech media ignoring it as usual.

 

[haszek]

So ppl with 8400 and 8700 do you get your max boost all the time? I don't know, I don't have one just curious how it looks on normal mobo and average cooling.

 

[gavinh87]

I think some people don't understand the difference between being biased, and some companies doing bad things more often than other companies.

You can't get equal criticism when there isn't an equal amount of underhanded things going on.

This is why some people criticise Intel and nVidia more than AMD and RTG.

The problems AMD has had are ones of incompetence, and then an unwillingness to admit the incompetency. For example, Vega. Whereas nVidia and Intel actively engage in underhanded anti-consumer and anti-competitive behaviour.

AMD aren't saints, and that isn't the point of my post, that AMD aren't as bad. Though some people won't read my post properly, they'll just substitute it with something else and claim I'm defending AMD, but the reality is that nVidia and Intel deserve more criticism because they're doing more things that are underhanded and dishonest, and seemingly just hope, or rely on the tech media ignoring it as usual.

If AMD had market dominance I bet it would be a different story. This is what lack of competition does.
However, the guy in this video comes out with so much rubbish

 

[gavinh87]

So ppl with 8400 and 8700 do you get your max boost all the time? I don't know, I don't have one just curious how it looks on normal mobo and average cooling.

Plenty of people here have shown that the 8400 has no trouble holding max boost under sustained gaming loads.

 

[spoffle]

If AMD had market dominance I bet it would be a different story. This is what lack of competition does.
However, the guy in this video comes out with so much rubbish

I don't think they would. Not because they're good or do what's right, but because they understand the issues that the negative press generates when they're found out.

I think it's that that has kept AMD "less dishonest" rather than altruism.

 

[sideways14a]

Plenty of people here have shown that the 8400 has no trouble holding max boost under sustained gaming loads.

Thats more than likely a given on here, i would expect most enthusiasts to be able to keep there chip cool and use a decent board.
The point of the video is that intels changes to tdp ect seem to mean a poor / cheep setup will be worse off than your would expect compared to a good setup.

Still i would like to see this pointed out more in reviews, its no good saying how great a chip is 5+Ghz on top end cooling with a stupidly priced MB and ram along with an over priced 1080ti or so setup, what about the normal kind of setup that uses more down to earth kit?
We aint talking about 5 or so % here, but a lot lot more.

 

[Jono8]

I have a 8700 ( non K) and it sticks fast at 4.3ghz on all cores at full load and when not all cores are loaded but still in use, clocks range from 4.4-4.6ghz.

I get exactly the same scores as a stock 8700k in everything with it (within margins of error) .

I built a pc for my nephew with a 8400 and that did everything as advertised as well (3.8ghz on all cores at full load).

 

[Chuk_Chuk]

Guys a massive AMD zealot....

Who exactly does he think he's talking to??

Moaning that some **** box medion PC piece of **** has sub par cooling and cheapo components and hence poor performance ..... No ****!!

Back in the real world his enthusiast audience knows that with proper cooling for both that a 8700k is a better choice currently for most consumer workloads vs a slight cheaper 1800x setup.

We can partially thank AMD for pushing Intel to release a hex core consumer chip sooner.

I couldn't see him covering the broken backwards compatibility of the latest AMD graphics card drivers on his YouTube channel.... Can't imagine that he would not be all over it if it was nvidia or Intel in a similar situation ....

I'm not sure how any of that computerbase review proves Adored right, but that's Adored for you.
OEM cheaped out on cooling and power supply so the 8700 TBT can't really boost to the maximum all core boost, that's pretty much all there is to it. I do think Intel should have some stricter guidelines for OEMs so you don't end getting sub-par performance due to OEMs trying to cut corners.

So are you both saying that because enthusiast/pc builders know that you should use proper cooling on CPUs to maintain boost clocks, the low base clock (compared to the max single core frequency) of the 8700 and 8400 is acceptable practise?

I have a 8700 ( non K) and it sticks fast at 4.3ghz on all cores at full load and when not all cores are loaded but still in use, clocks range from 4.4-4.6ghz.

I get exactly the same scores as a stock 8700k in everything with it (within margins of error) .

I built a pc for my nephew with a 8400 and that did everything as advertised as well (3.8ghz on all cores at full load).

What MB and cooling do you use? How long did you test it for?

@gavinh87
Have you not in the past stated that you don't like AdoredTV? Then why are you here (I gave you a warning)? Do you like to torture yourself by watching videos you don't like?

 

[gavinh87]

So are you both saying that because enthusiast/pc builders know that you should use proper cooling on CPUs to maintain boost clocks, the low base clock (compared to the max single core frequency) of the 8700 and 8400 is acceptable practise?


What MB and cooling do you use? How long did you test it for?

@gavinh87
Have you not in the past stated that you don't like AdoredTV? Then why are you here (I gave you a warning)? Do you like to torture yourself by watching videos you don't like?

Indeed, but I like to see other people views of him. It seems I am not alone.

 

[AmateurExpert]

Thats more than likely a given on here, i would expect most enthusiasts to be able to keep there chip cool and use a decent board.
The point of the video is that intels changes to tdp ect seem to mean a poor / cheep setup will be worse off than your would expect compared to a good setup.

Still i would like to see this pointed out more in reviews, its no good saying how great a chip is 5+Ghz on top end cooling with a stupidly priced MB and ram along with an over priced 1080ti or so setup, what about the normal kind of setup that uses more down to earth kit?
We aint talking about 5 or so % here, but a lot lot more.

You win a prize for actually watching the video! I'm not a fan of AdoredTV's style and it's fair to draw different conclusions that him, but to dismiss factual content on the basis of who presents it is equally foolish.

The i7 8700 is a concrete example of a phenomenon that we will see more of as CPUs get more sophisticated turbo clock mechanisms. The point is that just because the PC self-build/enthusiast community (including most tech review sites) has no problem in sustaining kit far above published TDPs, it doesn't mean that Joe public is going to get the level of performance promised in pages and pages of glossy benchmarks that proclaim such-and-such a CPU a winner.

I have a 8700 ( non K) and it sticks fast at 4.3ghz on all cores at full load and when not all cores are loaded but still in use, clocks range from 4.4-4.6ghz.

I get exactly the same scores as a stock 8700k in everything with it (within margins of error) .

I built a pc for my nephew with a 8400 and that did everything as advertised as well (3.8ghz on all cores at full load).

Congratulations - but that's not what the video is about.

The tech industry publishing benchmarks and ranking things solely from systems driving components far above published specifications is the problem.