Concrete driveway advice (pics included)

[LeeUK]

Got a few clampits in to lay some new concrete on part of my back yard, it needs to be good enough to put a car on.

They have ripped up all the old surface but it doesn't look deep enough. What is the ideal depth?

They are supposed to be putting gravel down and steel mesh before concrete.

 

[LeeUK]

They told me it was going to be 4 inch deep and suitable to put car on.

What they have dug out is not 4 inch. They have been messing me about for a week, finally turned up today, did 2 hours work, left and never came back. I phoned them up after lunch to see what the crack was with them not coming back and getting on with the job. They recon they are coming back tomorrow with the gravel to wack down and take away that pile of rubble.

I'm thinking about sacking them off later tonight.

 

[LeeUK]

The old drive didn't have a drain. And absolutely no one else in the street has a drain.

 

[LeeUK]

Any sort of contract?
Cash up front?
Stage payments etc
If you sack them they will still want payment for what's been done
Only did a garage floor once but dug it deeper than that looks
And put 6 inches of rebarred concrete in
After whacking the base
Might be more than needed I am not a builder so erred on the side of caution

Just verbal contract. Cash/bank transfer when job done.

Haven't paid anything yet. I'll offer them some cash for the work done if I do bin them off. All they did was 2 hours breaking up the top surface which was loose and broken to start with, and take one load of rubble away.

I suppose this is what I get for getting quasi-tradesmen who post on local Facebook groups but I just couldn't get any decent tradesmen interested in the job.

 

[LeeUK]

Nice drive but I'm just having a concrete slab down to match with the rest at the top of the yard, not blocks or paving slabs.

 

[LeeUK]

https://www.bradstone.com/inspiration-and-advice/planning-permission-for-driveways/

Not always applicable but if you're paying someone to do it you want it done properly.

I'm not concreting over a front garden. I'm just replacing concrete in a back yard of a terraced house that has always been concrete since it was built 100 year ago.

 

[LeeUK]

Messing around not turning up
Leaving the job and not telling you we are
Finished for today
Is all pretty unprofessional, not to mention rather bad manners
It sucks you couldn't get a proper tradesman
Now you're in an awkward position of will i sack them, how much will they demand for work already done
If sack them who will finish it
Or let them carry on assuming they bother to turn up
And hope they actually do a reasonable job
Problem is it might look OK immediately after but will it stand up over time once
Start using a car on it
Difficult position to be in unfortunately

Yes my head is spinning and wish I never started this project now.

 

[LeeUK]

Ah well, I fired off my concerns all I got back was that he's been doing it all his life and knows what he's doing. What bit? The concrete, the 2 hour work days?!? Says he'll see me tomorrow.

Just to point out that I couldn't get decent tradesmen interested in the job wasn't because of Covid, I've been trying to get this job done since last year.

 

[LeeUK]

Least you let him know you're concerned about it
And now you know his attitude
Which to me is a **** attitude to be honest
I have built pcs for 20 + years
But if building one for someone if they queried what I was doing I would explain
What and why and what came next etc
Not just say hey I know what I am doing mate
End of the day they are working for you so you have every right to have anything you want properly explained
Crazy you couldn't get a reputable tradesman in that time period
Looks like you might be stuck with letting them finish it then sadly
Hope it all turns out OK in the end for you mate
Your first post kind of says it all "few likely lads"

He went on to say that he's bringing the dolomite tomorrow and tipping it to one side while he "drags the rest of the crap out" up onto the the wagon to take away. I don't know if he just means the pile of rubble that's already there or if he is indeed digging more out of the ground. Then he said that he only came today to start it the job off and get some of it away and the concrete is booked for Saturday.

That's all well and good but none of this was fully explained and if this the case, why did he say he was coming back today!

Yes the price of the job might be considered very competitive, but I didn't ask for a cheap job, I was getting people in to quote for the drive for however much they saw fit. I think some of the problem why some tradesmen didn't want the job was because I didn't want the whole yard done, just the half that has been dug up in the photo.

 

[LeeUK]

May be a bit late in the day but references would have been good and also some sort of guarantee on the work. Unfortunately there's a lot of tradesmen around who come and go as they please, usually because they have more than one job on the go.

Seeing as I got no written contract I doubt the guarantee would be much good. But yeah I think he is just a floater and prob changing his trading name as he see fits.

 

[LeeUK]

Update:

They came back this morning, dug a bit more up so it is a bit deeper now but I wouldn't say it's level all over plus the pile of rubble is still there so they obviously haven't dug more out on the patch it's sitting on. They have dumped a pile of dolomite also.

They have now left again after under 2 hours of work and saying they might get here tomorrow afternoon (because he has a another job on!) to do the rest and wack the the dolomite down, if not they say it's going to be all done on Saturday morning in ready for the concrete being delivered.

So even after I voiced my concerns last night and asked for a proper explanation they are still talking BS and changing what they are saying and doing as they go along. A 2 day job is now going to be at least 4 days, which was originally supposed to start Wednesday last week.

They have also left a big steel grid to reinforce the concrete with but I'm a bit sceptical if it actually fits the whole area or if they are just going to plonk it in the middle and hope for the best.

 

[LeeUK]

I was ready to sack them off last night but the inconvenience of having a half-dug up back yard and pile of rubble to contend with, along with trying to get someone else to come and sort it calmed me down a bit. Getting people to take on the job in the first place was hard never mind someone willing to finish off someone else's mess.

I did think their quote was too cheap but now I know why.

 

[LeeUK]

Yes that's what I think he's trying to do, rush everything down with concrete on top so I don't have a chance to look and inspect the base.

He's saying the concrete is booked for Saturday morning, if true then that is not going to leave him much time to finish everything else off on Saturday morning considering yesterday and today they didn't turn up until 10am. To be honest I doubt the concrete is even booked and it won't get poured on Saturday as they'll have come up with more excuses by then.

I would have been happy if it was all dug out, cleared, and hardcore down and compacted on one day and the concrete pour the next, or even a one or two days in between if it was due to booking slots or whatever. From the work they did in 2 hours yesterday they could have had this done in a day if they had put a full day in.

Also thinking back, some of his excuses for being late was because he was in a queue at B&Q or trying to track other "supplies" down. Yet when he did turn up yesterday they didn't bring anything!

I even had it out with him last night that if he couldn't get supplies because of covid, or if the distance for him to travel is too far, then he shouldn't have took my job on or been straight from the start regarding delays. He said the distance isn't a problem yet I think it is seeing as he said he didn't want to come back for a second load of rubble on the same day. I understand the recycling place he takes the rubble to is an hour and a half round trip.

 

[LeeUK]

Today's work:

 

[LeeUK]

I've voiced my concerns again and told them that no concrete is getting poured until I'm happy with the preparation so I've suggested to them that they either come and do it tomorrow, or cancel the concrete for Saturday and not order it again until prep is all done.

They are not getting paid on the day it's poured either even if they demand or not. It's going to be paid by bank transfer aswell as I'm not faffing on going to cash machines.

 

[LeeUK]

Cash in hand jobs from random guys on Facebook might seem tempting but they aren't worth it personally. On the flip side I feel your pain, I struggled to get quotes for my path and when I did they wanted a weeks labour for 2 guys and a load of hire costs including a mini digger for a simple 1.2x10m path. In the end I did it myself in 3 days inc hand digging and I certainly can't dig or lay at the pace tradesman can.

It just seems you can't get a tradesman to just come and do just a job that you want done these days for a fair price. It's either these type of cowboys off Facebook, or it's firms who want to provide the "complete lifestyle package" like firms who only lay block paving or resin driveways from design to install. Same with glazing companies, it's whole house or nothing, not just the one window you want replaced etc.

 

[LeeUK]

good for you mate
hopefully putting your foot down may get some results
and at least bank transfer gives a record you payed some one unlike cash
guessing they wont take credit card as that would cover you better

I doubt they'll take debit card never mind a credit card. LOL.

 

[LeeUK]

As a driveway/patio installer YOU ARE BEING SHAFTED

That job is no where deep enough, the top pic above that shows the slabs, those slabs are usually 50mm (2") thick and he is barely lower than them.
Its not essential, but we always lay a sheet of plastic under concrete, it stops it drying too fast and its stronger in the long run as the concrete cures better, next week is suppposed to be hot as well

Depth should be a minimum of 100mm (4") of concrete not including the hardcore base, he will try and say he did dig 100mm out but he is using 50mm hardcore and 50mm concrete which is not strong enough
He actually didnt need to put hardcore base in, but as its cheaper than concrete, thats why he used it,

reinforcing bars are also not essential, we rarely use them on domestic driveways

to check depth, get a length of wood to go across the area and measure down or get a length of string and 2 helpers, hold it onto old driveway and path, pull it tight and measure from string to the top of the base
An old dirty trick is they will leave it deeper around the edges so it looks like they dug it out properly, but it will be high in the middle, only way to check is mentioned above

edit, if he gets funny with you, mention you will check with trading standards, for them to check the job when its finished

Thanks, Yep I know I'm being shafted well and truly. They haven't laid the hardcore yet but the ground isn't even 100mm deep to start with in the middle. Like you say, it appears to be deeper at the edges (even if still not deep enough) than in the middle as it's still very uneven.

 

[LeeUK]

Lee do you know the area of the job they are doing? eg.m2
also i understand if you dont want to say, but how much was the quote?

Just been out to re-measure and it's 4.70m x 3.90m so 20m2 approx give or take. It's only between 60mm and 90mm deep depending on where I measure and that's before the hardcore to go on.

They quoted £700.

 

[LeeUK]

That's about half the cost it should be. £700 would probably only cover the material cost (if done correctly).

I did have someone quote £1100 last year but when I asked them to go ahead with the job they just disappeared off a cliff.

If the driveway is forward of the principal elevation of the dwelling and is greater in area than 5 square metres then a condition of the permitted development is that the material is porous or provision is made to direct rain water from the driveway onto a porous are within the curtilage (generally speaking the garden of the house) of the dwelling. If not then you need express planning permission from your Local Planning Authority (LPA). Irrespective of what was there before or what your neighbors have done.

I'm a Planning Enforcement Office for a LPA.

Legalities aside, what difference does it make if the rain water drains into a drain on my property, or runs off into that big drain in the gutter next to the pavement in my photos? The drains on my property and the drains in the street all run into the same sewer pipe that runs down the middle of the lane!

Also the new housing estates they are busy building in area don't have drains to catch the water at the end of the drives.